Let's Talk - Movies

Wall Street (1987) - Scene-By-Scene Breakdown

• Just Curious Media • Episode 2

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Let's Talk - Movies
Episode 02: Wall Street (1987) - Scene-By-Scene Breakdown

Jason Connell and Sean Kinney break down the classic movie and talk about living in NYC, Oliver Stone in his prime, and '80s robot bartenders.

Synopsis: A young and impatient stockbroker is willing to do anything to get to the top, including trading on illegal inside information taken through a ruthless and greedy corporate raider who takes the youth under his wing.

Director: Oliver Stone
Writer: Oliver Stone, Stanley Weiser
Cinematographer: Robert Richardson
Cast: Michael Douglas, Charlie Sheen, Martin Sheen, John C. McGinley, Daryl Hannah, Hal Holbrook, James Karen, James Spader, Terence Stamp
Composer: Stewart Copeland

Original Episode: S01E02

Recorded: 05-09-20
Studio: Just Curious Media
https://www.JustCuriousMedia.com/

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Jason Connell:

Welcome to Just curious media. This is let's talk movies. And I'm Jason Connell, on the show. Today I'm joined by special guest, Sean Kinney.

Sean Kinney:

Hello, Jason.

Jason Connell:

Hello, Sean. So as listeners may or may not know, we're cousins, actual biological cousins. Is this true?

Sean Kinney:

Is this what they tell me? Yeah.

Jason Connell:

So it's just a rumor that our you know, we

Sean Kinney:

put that we put the time into prove it, I'd say that that's true.

Jason Connell:

And we're close enough and age that we went to high school together. And we grew up big movie fans as well as many other things. So I knew when I launched this show, which is off shoot or a spin off of Let's Talk Cobra Kai, I knew that I would have you on. And if it goes, well, I may have you on again. So today's movie, which we're covering is Wall Street, the 1987 Oliver Stone crime drama, which has a 7.4 rating on IMDb and a 79% on Rotten Tomatoes. The movie came out December 13 1987. And Shawn, I saw this movie in a little movie theater, when my parents moved me to Cleveland, Oklahoma, a suburb if you will, if you call it that of Tulsa, Oklahoma. And I remember it vividly. I remember seeing that movie and being so impacted by it. So I'm curious. When did you see it? Because we did not see this movie together?

Sean Kinney:

We did not. And that's impressive that you saw it in Cleveland when it came out. I mean, that's Yeah, but me. I didn't see it till years that every call, you know, somebody who haven't seen it, actually, he's, you know, when he's okay, seeing it and having an effect me was probably 1993 I think 93 Maybe, okay. 93. Let's call it 93. So you're in college, I was in college, and I was on a Christmas break. And again, 93 You didn't have Netflix, you'd have all the other stuff. You had VHS DVDs weren't a thing. And one of my roommates had Wall Street. And I was staying in the house pretty much by myself. I think that break. And I popped it in and I must have watched it at least six times over break.

Jason Connell:

It definitely has rewatch ability. That's for sure.

Sean Kinney:

Because the thing was it had coincided with that it just finished a book called insider trading. It was written by a guy named Dennis Levine who got caught up in insider trading scandals of the 1980s along with Ivan Bosque, and Michael Milken, and the whole Drexel Burnham take down and it was similar subject matter. It was like kind of what the movie was sort of based after it. So it was right after it finished that book. And I was blown away by the book. And I just so happened to have this movie sitting on the shelf, and I popped it in and that was that. So yeah. Wow. Let's go with 1983.

Jason Connell:

All right. Hey, that's cool. And it had a huge impact, because you've seen it. I mean, maybe more than me, and I love this movie. So just to get some of the things out of the way the budget, which I doubt, you know, but was 15 million. I mean, it's 1987 and the US gross. Now this number could be far outdated. I don't know. But IMDb has it close to 44 million baht in gross us gross. I'm sure it did more worldwide. And this is before Netflix and streaming numbers. So obviously it was a success.

Sean Kinney:

So that stacks well, for back then I wouldn't know. So 44 million gross is good.

Jason Connell:

off a $15 million budget. Yeah.

Sean Kinney:

What was it going up against? What was it going up again? In Christmas of 87? One Lethal Weapon maybe and what else was going on out there?

Jason Connell:

That's a really good question. And I have a lot of data in front of me, but I don't have its competitors. But that's a great question. I think yeah, Lethal Weapon one did come out in 87.

Sean Kinney:

And it says Christmas time. So this just first one that jumps out. But

Jason Connell:

yeah, no, that was and that also did very well at the box office. So yeah, good question. I'll look that up a follow up with that. But just to give the listeners a little bit of insight of the movie, that synopsis is just a young and impatient stockbroker is willing to do anything to get to the top, including trading on illegal inside information taken through a ruthless and greedy corporate raider, who takes the youth under his wing? And would you say that's a pretty accurate assessment of the movie? I just got this off IMDB. So

Sean Kinney:

yeah, I mean, kind of generic. But yeah, I'd say accurate. Yeah. And he goes through some low depths to acquire this information and which we can get into but yeah, he wants to make the big bucks bright eyed down on Wall Street putting all the hard work in but not seeing much return and he wants it fast any any any you know, it's just it's just loss of innocence. So

Jason Connell:

which is always thought this I know that I don't work in the financial sector, and you do and we'll kind of shed more light onto that for the listeners and everything but I do look at this movie and I think that had to nail that time in our economy. So true. Yeah, so it's like Reaganomics and it's just greed and you got a young buck who wants to get there yesterday. He doesn't want to earn it. He described to be there and live the life and I feel like well, this movie this encompasses that time, which is it's no longer that way. And you can see the

Sean Kinney:

Zeitgeist and he, and he has this altruistic sense about him until he runs into Gecko and Gecko lifts the veil and says, you know, yeah, this is how you make the money, not the way you think you're gonna do it. That with your charts.

Jason Connell:

Yeah, right. It's really he doesn't know anything. And I'd say I would probably venture to say that a lot of people might not know anything, but they have the, I don't know the fortitude or the staying power to be in the it's gotta be a tough game. And you can again, he tells me the ups and downs of working in the stock market, it's got to just take its toll. So

Sean Kinney:

yeah, yeah, it's, uh, it can I think a lot of that is a little bit romanticized by media and whatnot. But, you know, it's more, it's just, it's another day at work. Most of the time, it's just a job. It's a job. And it's not across the board. It's not the same thing for every company. And every person. There's so many different roles down, especially on the exchange floor. Yeah, there's Wheeler and dealers, and there's people that place big trades, and then they got desks, and they're hedging and got hedge funds and everything else under the sun. So, but can it be stressful? Sure. But so can you know, surgery? Or any other profession? Yeah, any good one? Plenty of professions out there that can be just as stressful if not more?

Jason Connell:

Yeah, being a Podcast Producer, dude, stress so

Sean Kinney:

stressful. I mean, I saw I saw what it took for us to get hooked up here. I mean,

Jason Connell:

technology of this social distancing. Doing remote podcasting, it's, yeah, it had to have you get a microphone and a new headphone, so I'm sorry. Alright, so I was also reading that the inspiration for this movie, Oliver Stone, really cited movies like executive suite 1954, and the sweet smell of success. 1957. Now that's predates kind of my movie knowledge. And I know a lot about movies, but I did not know that season. Yeah, so that's kind of I mean, loosely and some other things too. But that was interesting. His father was a stockbroker. Yes, I heard that through the director's commentary. But I'm sure that will totally play no role and inspiration for the for the film. Yeah, no, I get my father no credit. Yeah. So one thing besides Oliver Stone being who he is, and I want to kind of touch on a few things where he was at in his career at this point in time, but he really nailed the cast. I just got to say, I mean, Michael Douglas nails that is Gordon Gekko. And so much so that he went on to win a Golden Globe and an Oscar for Best Actor,

Sean Kinney:

deservedly so.

Jason Connell:

Exactly. Yes.

Sean Kinney:

It came out of nowhere. What did he really do before that? I know he wasn't some big films, Romancing the Stone, and this and that, but for this role kind of came out of nowhere. Right?

Jason Connell:

Right. I mean, I remember him growing up from a great TV show called The Streets of San Francisco. And I liked him immediately him and Karl Malden and then he went on to do like he said, Romancing the Stone, and he was also doing China's Oh, China Syndrome. Yeah, absolutely. But right. This is when he was peeking. And he was also shooting, which I want to talk about in the trivia later, he was shooting fatal attraction at the same time as making this movie. So he wasn't like, this isn't his sweet spot. Like this is the Michael Douglas on the top of his game peak, Douglas. Yeah. And then you have Charlie Sheen, who now he had worked with Oliver Stone in the movie prior and platoon. So it was easy to bring him on board. And obviously he did a great job in this role. And then you sprinkle in a little Martin Sheen. Great casting father son combo. You have John C McGinley, who was also on platoon. Yeah. How how Holbrook is amazing. James Caron, James Spader and Terence Stamp. I mean, the only one I'm really not going to probably do back home.

Sean Kinney:

Is it Hal Holbrook is in the movie? All Time? Oh, you said that. Sorry.

Jason Connell:

That's right. No, no, you're right. Yeah, he's amazing. And I wouldn't necessarily do backflips for Daryl Hannah. But you know, he wanted a pretty girl in there. Maybe that was a role that you could have considered someone else that might have been the weakest role in the hole.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, up after many after many years reflecting on that it was just such a money, business trading forward movie, and then you had a love interest in there. So I think that took away from Daryl Hannah. And maybe part of the reason why he's kind of I feel the same way. You know, if there was one weak link in the cast, if you want to call it a weak link, it would probably be her but I think it was more to do with the movie than her.

Jason Connell:

I agree. And they didn't get bogged down with that love story. It was just there. It was more to show what how Bud was changing how Charlie Sheen's character was less than getting to know Daryl Hannah, and that's why she was okay. serviceable shore. It was also just the role. It was a small role. So as far as Oliver Stone just to reflect on him very quickly. He had already won two Oscars by this point in time. He wrote the screenplay for Midnight Express and won the Best Screenplay, and then he won for Best Director. Row platoon which also won Best Picture. So here's a guy that could have done anything he wanted to do. And he made Wall Street. So he would also later to go on to win another Oscar for JFK Best Director. So we're talking about are very intelligent, prolific filmmaker,

Sean Kinney:

for sure. Peak stone to maybe arguably Sure why not? Yeah, Brad hardware every other year is bringing down the hardware. So,

Jason Connell:

platoon and to Wall Street. Yeah. Peeking. Everyone's peeking.

Sean Kinney:

was Charlie Sheen peeking. Come on. What do you do after? I mean, you didn't get to go on that car ride one where he's with the girl going down to Mexico after that, and then he lived on the beach in Malibu show and young guns or was that what is called

Jason Connell:

the West? He was a small roll on that right more Emilio show.

Sean Kinney:

So I'm just gonna go ahead and throw sheen into the mix of peak time as well.

Jason Connell:

Martin Sheen didn't peak because he's just always steady at Yeah, you know, for sure that guy. Yeah. And Taryn stamp. Wow, amazing.

Sean Kinney:

Marvin, which was Karen stamp. I forget sir Larry. Well, yeah, Taryn Stanhope. Yeah, definitely.

Jason Connell:

And then James Spader is always just

Sean Kinney:

always

Jason Connell:

Yeah, I mean, he got these guys to play these small roles are like legends. So I mean, that's great casting

Sean Kinney:

Terran stamp. I can't believe I didn't remember that one. I know exactly. The limy Oh, absolutely. The why me?

Jason Connell:

So Robert Richardson was the cinematographer. And he in his own right, has won three Oscars, JFK, the aviator and Hugo. So you got Oliver Stone movies, he worked for Scorsese. And his other credits. Check this out include platoon born on Fourth of July casino Kill Bill one and two and glorious bastards. And once upon a time in Hollywood

Sean Kinney:

now that's an impressive resume.

Jason Connell:

Guy. I would say he hasn't peaked. That guy's out of control.

Sean Kinney:

That's a guy can hang could stand to hang around with for a couple

Jason Connell:

of hours. See he's working with the legends. Yeah, well done, sir. Yeah, Mr. Richardson. And so now into the soundtrack. I love Stewart Copeland from the police. And of course, a great host the movie. Yeah, wonderful job. And then you've got some nice little songs in here. As I know, you

Sean Kinney:

know, Jason, I didn't know that Stewart Copeland compose the movie. I didn't know that. I'm ashamed. I didn't notice

Jason Connell:

composed a lot. And he did. I know

Sean Kinney:

he has composed a lot. And that's what I know who he is and what he you know, a lot of what he's done, but I didn't know that one because that was that's pretty early on. I mean, I know the post police but yeah, you know, not now. It

Jason Connell:

makes sense, right? Yeah, he did that. You know, he can post

Sean Kinney:

for some reason I thought David Byrne of talking heads kind of had a roll or something or maybe wrote some scores. I thought maybe some of that. But

Jason Connell:

anyway, Well, speaking of him, there was an amazing probably my favorite to this day, besides road to nowhere. It's got the great classic talking head song. This must be the place naive melody. And so that's the David Byrne reference right there. Also, the movie starts with and has a second appearance of it. Frank Sinatra was classic fly me to the moon. And you may or may not know this, but it's got to stand get songs in it. dasa funada and quiet nights of quiet stars cork, Nevada, and both were created by Antonio Carlos Jobim

Sean Kinney:

a year to get out of here. You had his key set on that secret for this podcast. You settled.

Jason Connell:

I did my research. I was like, Oh, he's gonna love this.

Sean Kinney:

Oh, wow. Now I'm gonna have to go down that rabbit hole later. Thank you,

Jason Connell:

Jason. Yeah, just so everyone knows. We're really big Latin jazz fans, bossa nova, in particular, Antonio Carlos Jobim, and Cal Tjader fans, among others. But I had no idea he had those songs in this movie.

Sean Kinney:

What scene is the stick? Is it when he's sitting on the balcony? And he's wondering what's going on? Or is it? I can't think of the scene where those are planning to have to

Jason Connell:

queue those. But as soon as you go back, they're like, oh, my god. It's so obvious. There's a score and it's not Copland it's track. And you may have thought it was the composer initially, but you're gonna have to give us a second or 100 viewing after we finish this podcast.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah. Yeah, a bit of trivia there.

Jason Connell:

Yeah. So here we go. So we're gonna go kind of through the scenes beat by beat of this movie, for good or for bad because even a great movie has some throwaway scenes. And then you being an expert in the financial sector could easily probably shed some light on something well, more of an expert than me. So we start with an amazing opening montage of New York City, waking up with the shots of people coming on and off the subway, people hitting the busy street market in his twin towers, fish market, and it reminds me a little bit of that classic film Koyaanisqatsi, which I love that That movie The Coppola produced movie with, you know, humans and fast moving. I don't know if you've ever seen that movie. Oh, no. I mean, I highly recommend it. It's more of an art piece and a movie. But I just love the way we set this tone early. We know where we are, and where we're in. And it's, you know, Frank Sinatra is playing. So it's like, wow, I'm already in. I'm hooked. Yeah. Captures I feel the same way captured because he's

Sean Kinney:

on the subway. He's alive. He's got the Wall Street Journal folded four times. He's got his hand on the strap. It's crowded. Sinatra is blowing. He's going to work. He's going to conquer the universe. He's race you used

Jason Connell:

to live this life. Your first job in the market was in New York City. You went to the financial

Sean Kinney:

district. I was a I was on the down on the floor of the American Stock Exchange in the options. Part of it. Yeah. 90s Yeah, mid to late 90s. I was a clerk. And so you took the subway. I'm assuming it was never said is never so glamorous as that movie. I was taking coffee orders at one point. But

Jason Connell:

well, I love how we get to work and how would this young associate bud Fox played by Charlie Sheen. He seems to like show up late like the place is bustling. And young fox just shows up just I know that they did it to probably establish this scene which is great because you kind of see he's not in the pits of Wall Street. He's in an office building. Sure. It's just crazy.

Sean Kinney:

It's it's a trading floor. You know all floor trading floor for wire house. But you know, and I think stone was just trying to show look, this is and it kind of got it to I mean, that was what was going on. There was order flow is what it's called. There was paper being traded and a lot of money coming in and a lot of retail clients and institutional goals. And they were smiling dialing, as they say, and yeah, those floors were busy back then they still are today. But that was a great look at what he did. I think I saw I can't remember might have been on the DVD or something how they constructed that thing. Whole straw brought in consultants like the computers. I think they've rented out a floor or something. I don't remember. But

Jason Connell:

that makes sense. Yeah, it was pretty authentic. And I would I go back now when I'm watching them have even for these notes. And having made a documentary about movieextras. I'm constantly so interested in what's going on. So now I don't even look at but anymore. I'm watching everything around there. Yep.

Sean Kinney:

Also amazing. Jase, let me say this, too. Yeah. So you know, when he's walking in the office, and he greets the Secretary, they make their little, I don't know, if they're flirting, whatever you want to call it. They obviously have some kind of repertoire going on every morning. And he goes down the thing and he's talking to whoever and his skin and high fives and how are he is and what are you doing? And you know, he's working his way over to his section on the desk. But did you notice how each one was people were a different character?

Jason Connell:

Oh, absolutely. The slit guy on the phone. That's vacationing.

Sean Kinney:

But that's so true. From what I remember being down on the floors and being around all those people, just the different characters. Like there were no two same people, you know, and larger than life characters and a lot of times, but you know, got that for sure.

Jason Connell:

Absolutely. And I even like how that scene segues into the opening bell shot, and I've read Yeah, Stone had 45 minutes to actually shoot at the New York Stock Exchange, which he used throughout the movie, but that's like real footage, not cast. They went down there and they got it and you could speak to it. It's pretty authentic to me as a layman. To what that would look like.

Sean Kinney:

I didn't know you had 45 minutes, but for only 45 minutes, he captured a lot. I mean, he drove the point home. Yeah, yeah. for that. So props.

Jason Connell:

So is that how it works on you have to cover a loss if there's a bad client, because that opening scene that's kind of what's happening to him? Is that spot on? Or is that is that movie magic?

Sean Kinney:

You know, that never happened to me, but I don't know how that might have worked. And you know, that was 1980s. But I can't imagine that like it's coming. It's crazy, right? You know, but I will say he decayed me What is DK talk to me, I don't know what this thing is. He didn't know the trade when he bought the option, they took a bath and that is true. We actually had a thing on the exchange floor there was a section of the floor in the back called the DK room where you know, it's much paper pushers that's tracking down busted trades all day long and I did a little bit of that as well for a while. Okay, but normally you have a clearing broker and a clearing house and they're guaranteeing trades and you're putting money off so I can't imagine that I'm not saying that didn't happen back then. Maybe it did maybe that was something what these brokers signed up to do you know they had a sign

Jason Connell:

either way if it was true or not it really worked in the movie kind of raised the stakes yeah and so whatever I mean, sometimes they have to embellish that had

Sean Kinney:

to be for the audience because I would imagine they would have been motivated enough II occur enough losses and decays you're gonna be out the door anyway. So exactly don't need to take your pay when you're not making anything but commissions anyways, what they were implying in the movie. So yeah, so

Jason Connell:

I love how Marvin played by Johnson McKinley, who is amazing, but his line about the space shuttle has a little bit of a flaw if you remember the horrific acts. Yeah, that took place in nine In 86, but if you remember, the movie opens with a 1985 stamp on it. So that was a little right timing was off on that, but whatever, we'll let it go. But it was just like wait a second, that doesn't add up. But

Sean Kinney:

also it also Hey, and Jason, I'm pretty sure that NASA is not a public companies. So you can't trade NASA stock when he says he's on the phone selling NASA short, 10 minutes of Space Shuttle blew up. You can't sell NASA short because it doesn't even trade as a stock. So it's a government body. It's not a it's not a stock.

Jason Connell:

Alright, so now we're at the owl tavern, which I've got to assume as a real place because it's just so why wouldn't it be right? And you've got sheen and shame. And I love this. You see the brilliance of Martin Sheen in this. And Jason.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, go ahead, set it up, set up, because I want to make a comment about this. Well,

Jason Connell:

this is also where you get the insight intel on blue star. So I mean, I'm just setting up the stage. So please chime in.

Sean Kinney:

Could it be any more blue collar? Oh,

Jason Connell:

collar. We could be in Pittsburgh, for all I know. To the Wall

Sean Kinney:

Street Yang?

Jason Connell:

Yeah. As far as I know. Martin Sheen is a steel worker. And he does not work in airline right. You know, yeah, not

Sean Kinney:

there and are still worker for sure. But yeah, it is dripping blue collar.

Jason Connell:

It's great. All of his buddies are there. And obviously you get a lot of exposition to see. And you learn that. Wow, this is his father, who works for the airline. He used to work there as a kid and baggage is whatever he grew up around a guy that was on the airline. Yeah, yeah. He goes all the guy and they're like feeling like hey, yeah, totally. And he's now he's too good for them. He's not too good for them, per se, but he wants nothing to do with the airline. He wants to be a big dog in Manhattan, a player a player. He wants to be a player. And I love how they go. You know, his dad's tried to get him some money and he's like that they did not. Don't do not hear outside. Noise see? He's given

Sean Kinney:

it to Jesus. Dad not in here.

Jason Connell:

It's so spot on. Because you know, that probably happened in real life at some point in time with those two. Oh, yeah. It's great. Right? It's great. And so I love the sequence. It says it all I mean, you see how hard working and a man of principle Martin Sheen is. And you see how his son wants to make the fast buck it just it says it all without saying that much.

Sean Kinney:

He supports his son but he doesn't understand the decisions he's making.

Jason Connell:

Yeah, move home with me and mom would

Sean Kinney:

be content with working you know, be content of that whole that whole thing.

Jason Connell:

Great. It's great. Love it. And now we cut to and I love this shot by the way. The next shot is buds naked sleepover guest no lines. Just a naked woman getting up. You didn't need to see herself. She needed no lines because she's completely naked and attractive. And then bud goes to his computer and Shawn, could it be any more 1980s computer? We use that computer in high school. Yeah. Not not even in middle school.

Sean Kinney:

That? Yeah, the calendar. Was it.

Jason Connell:

Joe's birthday? Do you Do you remember the day?

Sean Kinney:

Oh, so I do not November?

Jason Connell:

It just happened. It literally just happened on May 6, but it was 1985. So yeah, goes for a day may sixth may 6. Okay. We should have recorded this on May 6. Well, that would have been good. So but shows initiative. And I guess I'm coming out of that soon. If you have something else to add about the computer being stay there for a second. So

Sean Kinney:

oh, just I can't remember their charts came up. But I do remember the calendar. And I remember that he had the time schedule. He had his daily planner out is what it was can't write down the daily planner on a piece of paper in 1985. You got to put it on the first generation floppy. You know,

Jason Connell:

I wasn't a really early adopter to computers. And I know you were too I had the Commodore 64 Sure had like a Tandy, and well, I remember like learning on it because we're young and but I remember the limitations as well was kind of like war games. I thought, Well, what else can I do? And I remember getting programs like that, like middle school, high school, you know, put your account on here. And I remember thinking it takes me an hour to put some basic things in and you were like, This is not good. You're like 13 So that was exact But Fox doing? Yeah, he doesn't know what he's doing. It makes for a great shot in a movie.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, wonderful. Prop stone through that. Kind of like this is the 1985 and the world's changing the world's world's changing Yeah, no longer he no longer paper planners. You gotta go on the floppy disk to plan things. Floppy disks

Jason Connell:

love it. So now bud shows initiative, and he's taking Gecko a present and this is a great stuff All right advice to you see, it's his birthday. So I like about movies, they set these little nuggets up early that start to pay off and this is good screenwriting. You know, it's his birthday a great scene

Sean Kinney:

by the way that you're unfolding here, the setup where you go, he's going to the King Solomon's mine up there, this is everything exact art on the wall. He's got the Secretary, he's got the fantasy furniture, you can hear him talking behind the door,

Jason Connell:

look, because he's already called Gekkos office in the earlier scene, right, which we didn't talk about, but he does call on China. So the audience already knows, like, Okay, this guy has been knocking on the door. Now it's geckos birthday, who's going to turn a guy showing up with gifts? You know, I'll come on in. But what I loved is that again, Bud Fox, this associate skips out on work has a little, a little side venture, you know, he's a guy that's, he's doing his own little, he's going

Sean Kinney:

the extra yard. He's going out to the elephant to he wants to back the elephant. He's not going at mid range, like he's going big. And you know, art. And another thing about that scene, again, is how it's short. But boy, if you don't walk away from that scene going, I can't wait to meet this Gecko guy like he expectations are really high after that scene. And think

Jason Connell:

about it. We as an audience, we don't even know what Gecko looks like. We do know that Michael Douglas plays him. But if you haven't seen the movie yet, and trust me, there are people in the world youngsters or people that miss it, who haven't seen this movie yet. So you don't know what gecko is. And finally, Bud sits there all day long neglecting his work. And they got him five minutes with Gekko, right, five minutes. And if you watch that scene, which we're about to talk about that scene, as soon as bud enters the door, and soon as he exits, it's literally you could do a stopwatch to it. It's actually five minutes in real time. So Oliver Stone took five minutes to do it. It's kind of cool. It really delivered on the five minutes, but you comes in with cigars. And here's Gecko and this infamous scene because it's even portrayed in the movie boiler room. They're like watching one of the rooms also a great movie came out in 2000. It's really worth seeing. It's not wall street level, but it's really fun and enjoyable. And they're all watching it. And then they're voicing. You know geckos lines, which is fantastic. So, I mean, this is a great sequence. You see Gecko on the phone, work in it. He doesn't even know what fires is as

Sean Kinney:

early as it But Fox isn't nervous enough to begin with. Here he is on the big stage, and gecko is just putting on a show. He's got the EKG monitor. He's shouting, buy and sell orders, and he's telling fat ollie to kill everybody on the street. He's got lawyers involved. He's talking mergers and acquisitions and here but Terminator, but Fox gonna pitch him on some dogs with fleas, as he says, but yeah, what

Jason Connell:

is but have other than ambition, and put himself out there and a president. He has nothing. He's not this great trader, but I'll give him he's got chutzpah. He's got tenacity, but he's not something that is going to serve us get go and he sees through it and five seconds until he sells

Sean Kinney:

takes one second. You got anything.

Jason Connell:

God, thank God I met pops at the owl tavern. I got a little nugget last night.

Sean Kinney:

I got a hot stock tip and a pocketful of cash from pops last night I got something for you.

Jason Connell:

And I'm sure we've all been there in life where it's like God, I'm finally right here meeting someone that I admire. We've all been there at some point in our life. And I've even been there myself and be like, Oh, what have I got for this person? You know, and I didn't sell my soul. But we've all been there like, oh, yeah, it's they're not that interested in me yet. Why are they interested in me? You know, so that was that's it. He talks about Blue Star antenna goes up on Gecko. And you just know, right that in there? Probably not good. This case. incorporator. I don't know what you knew initially, but I just knew this probably wasn't a good. You know, I gotta

Sean Kinney:

say, this probably speaks a lot of my character, unfortunately. But I was like, I was like, Go Fox. I mean, I was taken aback by that at all. I was like, because I probably would have done the same thing. I'm sorry. I mean,

Jason Connell:

well did that most people would Yeah, in that situation. This is your one hot stock. Here's your moment. The doors right there. Oh, yeah.

Sean Kinney:

You're trying to hit a homerun and any want to get in good. And you came in naive thinking that guy like Gecko, hard work and bootstraps got him up in that office, but it wasn't no hard lesson in lineup.

Jason Connell:

So bad goes back to the office. And then he gets the call. And this is when the movie just starts to like speed up. He gets the call. It's gakko and his bag the elephant. Correct.

Sean Kinney:

And but go ahead. He walks into the office a little dejected, more than just a little like he's crazy. He knows what he did. But no, I think he's crushed because he thinks he felt he flopped not because he sold he gave him a hot tip on blue star because he surprised when he gets the phone call to buy blue star. I think he's moral Like, Oh, I took because he meant when he said, Did he see you? Yeah, he saw right through me. Maybe that means, you know, he was able to shake out a tip. But he didn't know that his dad worked for the airlines and all that stuff. I'm just saying he walked into the back to his office.

Jason Connell:

He was he was dejected for sure. But

Sean Kinney:

I didn't see. But I was like, were you like me? I'm like, why is this is going to Jack did I mean he sat toe to toe and he pitched him a stock and he knew something was getting ready to come on. So

Jason Connell:

I think he felt like a fraud. I almost think that he thought that Gecko was seeing him as a kindred spirit or something like, Hey, this guy is he's after. And he saw right through them and said, What do you got? And he knows, he just stumbled into this interesting without this. He's out the door. And once he got lined up, so I think he was deflated. Our egos have all taken a hit from time to time. And he got the call. So he was inspired. Of course, he gets a chance. Right. And so I brought him right back.

Sean Kinney:

That's an interesting perspective. Jason, and once he gets the phone call, he's super excited whether he pitched in blue star or not. He's not looking back.

Jason Connell:

Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Because all about him go to bat again. Yeah. And so now they go to lunch, which is crazy. 21 Kiss, but lunches for web. So I don't know why they went to lunch. But I didn't see Gecko eat either. So he's in there for a quick drank and meat but and he gives him what what does he give him Sean?

Sean Kinney:

He gives him a plate of raw meat with an egg on it. But he also gives him a check. Now here's the thing. I still don't know how much that check is for? Because $1 million? Is it 1 million or 10 million? I think it's 1 million. Okay. I'm disappointed because the way he shocked like, Oh, my God, a million dollar check. Because is he ever seen anything like that before? Well, that would be chump change to Gecko, even nav seven, and I've even pause the frame blew it up several times trying to figure out is it $10 million? Or is it$1 million?

Jason Connell:

You know what, we might have to do a deeper dive on that because you know, we could probably go and my notes I wrote 1 million but I figured it was a starter fluid for him. You get going, we'll see what you do. But you're right. Hey, we

Sean Kinney:

can maybe find out the price of blue star we could go back and find out the price of Blue Star What do you start out by buying 5000 or 10,000 shares of blue star and reverse engineer it and he said put DC put a couple 100,000 in those bow Well, stocks that you pitch and some mutual funds, spread it around or something I don't remember.

Jason Connell:

And then go to my tailor. Go see this guy board.

Sean Kinney:

He seals Morty. What do you sales? I think that was his name or something. But no, I think it was $10 million. Jason. I'd like to okay,

Jason Connell:

I'm not gonna argue with you. I prefer to be 10 million I hope. So at this launch with Gecko and Fox. What do we find out about Bluestar they're exonerated. So Gecko looks at but in a way that he's got some answers. He can be hazy it's a big moment. I

Sean Kinney:

think he's maybe thinking like he can definitely be had at this point. He gave me a good tip this kids hungry. He was willing to compromise his dad. So for sure. So geckos got himself a little pupil project, if you will,

Jason Connell:

because your opinion is what is that Gecko wants to get this kid doing insider trading is that his plan from him all along?

Sean Kinney:

I mean, he just seems like a transactional guy and if you can in this is how I do business. So I mean, he kind of proves it out in the in the movie Yeah, you go out and give me the information anyway, necessarily surprise me is what I think is what he says.

Jason Connell:

So now we go back to buds apartment. I'm telling this guy is two for two. He had the hobby from the night before and this time, young Lisa shows up. Oh, yeah. And let me just say, Shawn, it pays to work for Gecko because they don't stay in buds apartment. They drive around Central Park, New York. She's an escort they're doing below and a lot of things are happening in Ubud foxes world. Is that pretty accurate, what it was like to be a trader at the mid 80s. To your knowledge.

Sean Kinney:

I can't speak of any of that. Maybe you've heard some I was analyzing charts at night, you know? No, it was there was plenty of wild things going on. But well, you weren't there in the mid 80s. Oh, no, I wasn't. I wasn't, but I saw things. And then 10 years later in the 90s. But yeah, she knocks on the door. They get in the limo, get dressed. We're going to whatever club Yeah, no, so great. They're doing blow. He's given her stock tips.

Jason Connell:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So now this is the high and low of the stock market. Because now we're in the office. And this is probably something you've dealt with after a great day, the next day market not so good. Oh,

Sean Kinney:

you know, and Marvin, the mind read reader says it best at the end of the day, he's like He we shared went down the tubes on that ugly bitch or whatever he says. And I can't tell you the number of times like people sit around like, and the general public or paper if we call it order, flow, puts derivatives traders a lot of times market makers in these positions they just don't want to be in they can't get out of so they're just trying to at some point, you're just at the mercy of the market and she's just a cruel bitch. I'll put it this way. It feels a lot worse, having a shitty day than on the days when you make a lot of money, at least from what I remember.

Jason Connell:

Are the lows more painful than the highs? elation?

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, it's almost like you were trying to a lot of times avoid the you know, I mean losses or losses I mean, but yeah, it's just that scene I felt the frustration

Jason Connell:

and he gets the call so that day this mark it's like It can't end soon enough Exactly. And then he gets the call. It's like geckos looking for you and it's like, oh, man, and if it can't get worse, he's gotta go face get go and lose and squash. So it's just like, this is just like, Yeah, even when we have a bad day, you gotta go answer to the man.

Sean Kinney:

Yes. Yep. I'm gonna have to explain myself.

Jason Connell:

Yeah, what happened there? I thought you knew stuff. Right, Fox? Right. So in my opinion, when I watched the scene, I think Bud's an exceptional hustler. But not a great broker. Would you agree?

Sean Kinney:

I don't know what makes a great broker. But he's definitely not one of them. But not living in that apartment with that computer. He wasn't apparently but he was a hard worker,

Jason Connell:

for sure. But he has to cross the lines to keep Gekko interested. Absolutely. That we know. Yeah. And that's obvious. And he tells him, you know, get me something. He throws him out. I love that scene, or he's in the limo. And he's just laying it on him like this is right after they play squash and then they get cleaned up at the great looking club, of course, which I liked. The gecko talks about how I couldn't be a member and now he's in that, you know,

Sean Kinney:

like that scene in a locker room. What's his name? Like? Hey, Georgie. How's Larchmont? treatin ya. Do any business on that one deal? You know, just I don't know why the house Larchmont. Hey, how's Larchmont treating? Yeah, it's a great so then he closes the thing and it gets back to the evil Gecko. But something about that scene too, which goes back to bud Fox is that he's a little naive. Because like he showed that club going, I'm gonna have to explain these losses. But man, I'm gonna show him what a good worker AM. So he's kind of taken aback in that limo, right when Gekko lowers the boom on him. Let me show you my charts. Like I get in trouble for that. Just completely taken aback by, you know, very naive, very naive.

Jason Connell:

What did he do? What do we know about but Fox we know that he worked at his father's airline. And when I say Father, Father Father doesn't his father doesn't own it. His father is a hard worker. He comes from a good family blue collar. He was their work. And he saw what they did and said, I don't want to do that. But I know how to move ahead. And I'm a hard worker Gecko could give a crap about

Sean Kinney:

that. But fine can you do for me, but Fox has some morals. You know, he's got a good father. You hear about the mother. She makes lousy spaghetti, but she's probably a great mother. And he comes from a family and this net. But yeah, he didn't want no part of the airlines and I want to go down to Wall Street and make a buck.

Jason Connell:

Yep. So and I liked the scene so that yeah, it's in a limo where he knows to keep Gecko interested in ham. He's got to have more blue stars. Yes. And so this leads to the next scene because he agrees he says, All right, you got me so now geckos got his mark. He knows about foxes now I can count on him. And now so greasy bud. It's great. It's I mean this movie the sweets are great. It's like oh wow. Now he's in this mode. And now we see Sir Wildman and buds Intel begins to pay off these following are meant to speak to the scene like he's following Yeah, it's kind of what's going on the movie starting

Sean Kinney:

to ramp here to this is when like it's got its teeth and Maeve you know the audience but especially that scene after the limo scene because now you're like okay, the gloves are off. School is out and businesses business so yeah, he's on his motorcycle where the motorcycle come from but Fox actually has a motorcycle, which was probably a hot cool little motorcycle back then it looked like a fancy hobby. It was his Yeah.

Jason Connell:

Who I mean Sheen's Yeah, that's what I'm paying for all we know.

Sean Kinney:

I think it was Sheen's? Yeah. So he showed a little ingenuity. You know if I'm going to follow this guy around, I gotta get in and out of traffic. Maybe he rents the motorcycle. We don't know. But he can't

Jason Connell:

afford probably a car and parking in Manhattan. But he's got a bike stashed somewhere.

Sean Kinney:

Maybe he borrowed it from a friend because he's like, he's got to be mobile to to follow sir Larry Wileman around the city. But yeah, I love it. He's outside he's eating the hot dog and throwing the trash in the basket and walks into the lay circus and

Jason Connell:

then it goes to the when the plane took off and like acts like he missed his boss to find out what the plane was going

Sean Kinney:

showed hell of a creative and ingenuity and improvising. That's where

Jason Connell:

his strength is and what's he get he gets a sure thing. He starts spreading around the office. Go ahead and say what it is

Sean Kinney:

like when the light bulb goes off though. It's telling our steel Oh no, sorry, it's anacott steel. Exactly but and but I like the phone call with Gecko though once the let's roll the dice and play a little monopoly G G worse or Larry Wyoming gonna land on the Monopoly board in Erie, Pennsylvania.

Jason Connell:

Jesus Christ. He's

Sean Kinney:

going after anakata deal. Or I don't know the exact line but a light bulb goes off and now it's Charlie Sheen is all geeked out and ready to go. He's in

Jason Connell:

Yeah, exactly. And Lou From the office comes in Warren's, but he can kind of see some kids on the fast track. He's going around you know, like there's a warning sign these guys old timers seen it before guys. Come and go. Yeah. And there's a nice montage coming up with all the beats and Anna Scottsdale and you got a cameo from the director, Oliver Stone, which is nice. And pretty funny.

Sean Kinney:

It's a check the ARBs. You know, what the you know what an ARB is arbitrageur. That was a thing of the 80s. Nice, yeah, we don't need to get an I did not know that we don't need to get in a finance lesson. But it's kind of kind of, they did their homework to throw that out. And a lot of those guys were caught up in the whole insider trading scandals of the 1980s arbitrage errs, which is a fancy way of saying you can buy the same product in two different markets at two to buy IBM for $50 in Philadelphia and sell it in New York for $50.50 and make a 50 cent spread instantly. Okay, okay. But these guys were doing. The arms were more like risk arbitrage was like takeover deal stocks where there were still a spread between the company being bought and the acquiring company. And there's options in play. And there's some it's called Risk arbitrage. Because the width of the spread is sort of a gauge of the risk, whether the deal is going to close or not. And there's a lot of really brilliant people that ran those desk back then, you know, for the big banks that could, you know, brilliant people. As a matter of fact, Carl Icahn was involved in that game and he did it with options and that's how he kind of got a start and that whole business, I don't know if you know, the Carl Icahn is, yeah, of course, you're kind of one of these corporate raiders of the 1980s. Well, so

Jason Connell:

was T. Boone Pickens from Oklahoma State. Yeah,

Sean Kinney:

he was but he wasn't in the risk arbitrage. He was just more of a corporate raider company. But it's funny that Oliver Stone throws out let's check the archives because you know, most commoners aren't going to know what every what an ARB is, and or that it stands for risk arbitrage. And he did his homework to throw that in there, which I thought was pretty cool.

Jason Connell:

Is that something like you'd have on a t shirt? Check the ARBs if you want to get your ass

Sean Kinney:

beat? Yeah, no, but

Jason Connell:

I've heard a bumper sticker on your Porsche. What's that? Is that a bumper sticker? Oh,

Sean Kinney:

it's a vanity plate. Check the art? Oh, yeah. I'm gonna kill your car. If I see that. No, it's just kind of cool. They threw that in there. And that was little things like that when I read about them, not this movie. But I would read about risk arbitrage. Especially that book that I mentioned earlier. That's what really set my light bulb off for trading on Wall Street and all that stuff. Because there wasn't ability back then, especially for computers took everything over that. Man in certain situations. If you knew what you were doing, there was bags of money free, or relatively risk free to go out and get. Wow. Well, I'm saying just for a market maker down in the options pits when two companies would get taken over. A stock became hard to borrow and the premium levels on the puts got out of whack and we had market maker exemptions and there was a we had a lot of built in advantages that we could take advantage of. And make some coin you know, never liked the big guys. But getting back to Oliver Stone and let's check the ARBs. I thought, Oh, how cool is that? And it's like if anybody's like a geek of that stuff, like you're automatically going ARBs. Let's see what the ARBs are, you know, so love it. Yeah. And then that montage, yeah, the split screen and they show the floor? Well, a lot of that film is predicated on insider trading, and the scandals and all that stuff. And he's showing how these two bid arbitrage years, you know, like the Ivan Bosque is of the world in real life, who were they held themselves a fancy title, but all they were doing was dealing on insider information, you know, so when he shows that scene, like chatter, let's this what are the arms chattering about I take it in bid it I own up as it you know, they're spreading rumors, you know, like Ben stalks up spread rumors, and under the guise of a fancy title being a risk arbitrage here. So kind of goes on with the theme of the movie about the insider trading and stuff like that. And then the scene on the stock exchange with a specialist in the market makers in the $2. brokers and he nails it.

Jason Connell:

Absolutely. And you know that but to me, I was convinced it's very authentic. Yeah, grounds the movie and realism. And I don't question it. I'm not questioning any of it.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, don't question. He nailed it. I'm telling you. He nailed it when he had the real specialist. And you know, I read about or saw where the guy was a real specialist on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, the guy in the in the crowd with the jacket, seeing what do you have for me, you know, you want to know what a saw you again? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That was just so authentic. For the scenes. And, you know, I was an options trader down the street on the American Stock Exchange, but it was still a specialist system. It was the same deal. You know, there's just more people in the crowd and brokers stand around. There were market makers and traders in the crowd, but trusted he was right. He nailed it on that one. He shared it for you or your audience with the mechanics on what's really going on. That's our But it's just it's an auction market. So

Jason Connell:

that's okay. You've already bored them. It's okay. So, here we are. Now we're going to geckos home and I like this scene because a lots going on and we get to meet Darien Taylor, Daryl Hannah, and Kate Gekko Sean Young, who by the way, were both in the movie Blade Runner in 1982. And young actually wanted Hannah's role in this, but caused all sorts of issues, thus decreasing her own role because Kate gecko is barely in this movie at this point in time. And Darryl Hanna's role of Zhan So, but this little sequence of them and Bud gets to meet them also sets up sir wild man shows up great says he's not happy. And now you get to see like what the big dogs look like. And he has bud geckos, like stick around, you're gonna want to see this. So this is how it works with these guys. The elite. Yeah, he got taken advantage of on the anacott steel trade, and he lost some money. Gecko had made money and so he's there to make things right. He kind of recognized his spot on the elevator a little bit. Doesn't really recognize them,

Sean Kinney:

does it? Yeah, just plant that seed. Yeah.

Jason Connell:

Yeah, awfully familiar. I had a bad day after I saw my guy. Put that together. Yeah, it's really great. Really great saying loved it. And then

Sean Kinney:

he has the gun. He's like, Oh, yeah, he has this gun collection and they're squaring off. They're gonna measure their dicks and that's all that's going on. Oh

Jason Connell:

to lay. But I like before he even shows up sir Wildman played by a fantastic Tarrant stamp and it might even be it sir Terence Stamp for all I know at this point. He's crazy. And I love how it said 1980s robot like serving drinks. It's like so the times you know, do you want a vodka tonic? Yeah, Stupid Robot. It's like this is perfect. It's just perfect. I forgot a lot Gosh,

Sean Kinney:

he played it a lot of that stuff. There's that's a common like thread there's first you had the computer with the calendar or the day planner and then you have the robot later in the movie have a little miniature TV and

Jason Connell:

yeah, well he couldn't put these things in platoon. So he was sitting on him. It was waiting. Yeah, there you go. The right vehicle to thrust this technology into three so

Sean Kinney:

in the conversation you know, like ah, Norma, Kamali and paintings and the whole phoniness and the money and

Jason Connell:

greed. Right. So I love the next shot. It's a great shot and I remember reading here maybe it was the commentary actually listened to of Oliver Stone. It's the shot of Gecko on the beach in the robe. Yeah. And calling bud to wake up and it's like, to me Shawn, it just says success. Yeah, and so what does he say? Like Money Never Sleeps?

Sean Kinney:

It never sleeps. Not Money Never Sleeps Hong Kong, which is also unfortunately

Jason Connell:

the title of the dreadful sequel. Yeah, Wall Street to mine never sleeps. Well, that's for a podcast. Yeah, another day and another network. Don't call me back for that. But I love the scene because it's also supposed to be daybreak. But I believe the commentary says this was a night shot. It was dusk, but it plays either way.

Sean Kinney:

Either way. It's pretty either way. It's beautiful.

Jason Connell:

That's his life and he's made it and he's waking but up you know, Hey, buddy, this is it. Jump on it. And it's just it's great.

Sean Kinney:

Like he's he's colliding like that. The whole ocean with money and he'd been up all night slinging Hong Kong gold and you know, what are you doing? Hey, bud, you're not supposed to sleep because Money Never Sleeps. When you left the party. I got back to work. You went home and went to bed. But by the way, I just threw some money in your account. Have

Jason Connell:

fun? Exactly.

Sean Kinney:

I'm gonna make you rich boat foxes. What he says by the way before he gets off the phone, I'm pretty sure in that scene.

Jason Connell:

Exactly. And now so but has he seen it? He's been to the house. He's scratching it gecko is bringing him along. So now you know, Sean, he needs info. And so he's got to go through the Rolodex. And so he goes to see James Spader to get him on board. And once you do, Shawn, like, what's the purpose of hooking James Brown Who's an attorney in this movie?

Sean Kinney:

Oh, if you're looking for some specific I just think he knows his audience there. But Fox he's like, I'm gonna go to this guy because I know he's in corporate finance attorney. Yep. His dad's a hotshot attorney runs the firm involved. He knew obviously and their college buddies they go way back and he probably knows James Vader's character is just as ambitious as he is

Jason Connell:

so much like eco sized up but Fox he size and Roger up well, but also goes into total hustler mode because he sees where Roger works. And he gets this great idea. By the way, it's a great idea and he executes it flawlessly. He goes to the cleaning service to help them expand so he can get access because he can get to files So Ben is all in at this point in time. He's, he's sneaking in places, photocopying, whatever getting Intel and

Sean Kinney:

Jason. Aren't you just rooting for bud Fox at this point? I know you're supposed to be feeling bad like this guy's throwing it. You know, it's just completely contrary to what the theme of the movie is. You're just doing

Jason Connell:

we all love a rags to riches story. We all that's what but is come on.

Sean Kinney:

We're all just compromised. Maybe that's when Oliver Stone was provoking. That's like we're all kind of compromised, because we're sitting a route and it's not going oh, you go to the the Russian guy who ends up cleaning services and you invest in that and then he's walking around with the hat and the clipboard and yeah, did you know the next Yeah. Next scene. He's just walking around Office going through files pulling up. Like he says, like, companies and

Jason Connell:

he's quick on his feet to that the one lady that Secretary stays late. She catches them. It's like, oh, is this such and such as you know, buzzer you know, he's, he can pay he's a chameleon. I love it. He liked

Sean Kinney:

he was ready. And he was ready. No deer in the headlights. When she walked into the office. He already had his his thing built out.

Jason Connell:

And she's doing a great job. I should say, besides the character. She is nailing this role. Yeah, he is. He just is. He's like, Oh, shucks, but yeah, he's conniving and he's perfect. And

Sean Kinney:

we didn't touch enough on James Spader, though and that we're not

Jason Connell:

done with him. We've been back to spend a bit Listen, Spader plays that role. Like a he gets an Oscar for being in this movie for like five minutes. Yeah, perfect. He's reluctant. He's the good guy. What's he talking about? His wife and their place in Oyster Bay.

Sean Kinney:

I think Margie or Marge. She's got a place in Oyster Bay. She's doing all right. And he's just so smug. He's perfectly smart. Oh, smart. But he's no one's more smug than James. Yeah, he's perfectly smug. And he's a climber. He's just putting the hours in. And, you know, one day it's gonna say, what are

Jason Connell:

we talking about? But let me walk you out because I'm interested but I'm gonna act like I'm not interested. Right?

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, he's, he planted that seed. Because he knew he was gonna and then you know, he's all in.

Jason Connell:

He wants more. His wife's not working probably, you know, breadwinner. But hey, a chance to make some more bread. Everyone's trying to get ahead. This is the A. And here's

Sean Kinney:

what's crazy about it too. Because you know, his setup, like obviously, he's well educated. His dad has a firm down on Wall Street or whatever. He's doing business with banks down on Wall Street, putting merges together for the legal in. He's got a future and it's going to be a very good future financially for him. What does he do? He starts getting involved some state shady shit for just extra money doesn't need the money. This is how he needs the money. Fast Track and man, he he doesn't even need to really fast track because his his destiny is already set. Stay at that company, you're gonna take over your dad's law firm or whatever your your fast track in the partnership anyway. So I just think it's just greed, like, oh, well, you know,

Jason Connell:

that's the theme of this entire film. It is great or bad right into it. He's

Sean Kinney:

driving it home for sure. But, and God, that character

Jason Connell:

is so great. So now you have a scene. And this is now when the little bit of romance that there is between bud Fox and Darren Taylor begins to happen. And this scene really cracks me up. He's sharing his dream, but Fox is about riding his motorcycle across China. And he and Darien to me, Shawn, they just seem like they're

Sean Kinney:

coked up,

Jason Connell:

I'll take you public. It's like these guys are drinking the Kool Aid and literally coked up Yeah, coked up and drinking, what they're joined, or

Sean Kinney:

they're joined, enjoying their success or enjoying their success, which is good to see.

Jason Connell:

It doesn't hurt the story. No, it helps feed buds, you know, through lines. So I don't think it's a departure at all. And it's just enough, just a little, just a hint. And then we're back on track. And now we're seeing just a bump, if you will, yeah, just a little buttons literally nice nose there on the nose. So I liked this neck shot because rather than talking about it, we actually see blue star airplanes in the flesh. And that's a nice touch because we never had to see them. But to see bud go there to obey and see pops and the crew on an actual airline that says blue star. I thought it was very authentic. And I liked it. And He's busting chops.

Sean Kinney:

They're all busting each other's balls. It's the bozos who keep the planes in the sky and forget what they say it's a great scene. I love it.

Jason Connell:

And I love that Carl Martin Sheen immediately tells more to bud you know literally Sean Carroll needs to share less with his son at this point in time because he lays some more stuff on him right and and and now they got my you know, they're gonna cut things and that they get the union so he's laying all this knowledge and buds soaking it up. soaking it up.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, yeah, it's a good scene. You should We should tell the audience that that was our grandfather Jack Miller egg was our well he was he was a Karl himself in New York and London trench when it talks about working on airplanes just like that mechanic back in those days airlines.

Jason Connell:

Yeah, absolutely. That's why our family migrated to Tulsa, Oklahoma. They would have stayed in New York. But yeah, he got the promotion to move to Tulsa, Oklahoma and an Irish man literally from Ireland. World War Two. Yeah, absolutely. And actually had a heart attack at work at the airline. Yeah. But he was also in coal mines as a youngster his lifespan was probably not supposed to be very long. But yeah, he was Carl.

Sean Kinney:

They didn't they didn't live the healthiest lifestyles that generate Oh, that

Jason Connell:

generation. Cigarettes were introduced. Smoking and drinking were a requirement in life

Sean Kinney:

cholesterol was non existent. But anyway, I digress. But yeah,

Jason Connell:

but yeah, good mention there. Nice shout out rest in peace. Miller right. But

Sean Kinney:

that seems great when he shows up to the mechanic shop and we're working away and Carl is just having a tough day because he's still using slang and drama. He's dealing with drama.

Jason Connell:

And so now he did lay off a few guys and it just kills Carl. Yeah, man. He's a lifer. He loves his job but

Sean Kinney:

but bring some good news to him here. I'm gonna give you some money back and here's a debit it'll

Jason Connell:

pay back yeah, get and gives him a lot of money back. He's flush but

Sean Kinney:

doesn't give a shit. He's like, What is this? Doesn't brighten his day.

Jason Connell:

No. could care less? Yeah, that money's gone. Right home. Give to the wife. It's gonna go on like a coffee, isn't it? It's gonna go into coffee. Can coffee can Oh, you know, it's in a Folgers. Can? You know it is? Grandkids tuition. Yeah, it's down the road. He kicked it to the curb. It's down the road. Yeah. So now bud gets a promotion goes back to work. Things are going good. He's got the gecko account. He's got a new office. He's got his own Secretary Janet, a little trivia here, played by Adele Lutz, who was at the time and I know ex wife, David Byrne. Yeah. You know, another tie in to David Byrne in the talking heads to this movie. Who did not score the movie because it was Stewart Copeland?

Sean Kinney:

Did she was she part of the tom tom club? I had

Jason Connell:

to look that up that I don't know. So now bud flush with some cash is looking for a new place and not just to rent he's looking to buy and I love Dolores, the realtor played by silvium

Sean Kinney:

Jason he's looking to ditch the exposed brick and a house plan as Darien would say,

Jason Connell:

yes, exactly. On the west side. And now Sylvia miles, you may or may not know. She's one of the only people from Wall Street that went on to be in this sequel. True that? So is Bud Fox. You know, small rollin, obviously, Gordon Gekko, but that's it. There's your three people.

Sean Kinney:

And she looked about the same in a second the sequel? Yeah. Which is

Jason Connell:

very simple. Yeah. But it's fantastic. Because I love that she's given him a hard time. Like he's kind of thinking for a second. And she's just, I can show you something cheaper. You know, she's on him, like, you know, just some old lady. And the minute he agrees to buy it. She's trying to show him something more expensive. She's

Sean Kinney:

getting a nondegree to it's the 80s. And she,

Jason Connell:

Oh, you want this? Because I got something nice. Oh, but he's like, No, I'm good. This is it. This is Yeah. It's so great. Yeah. So this leads to bugs got the new place. Darren, if you didn't know this already, not you but the audience. She's a designer. And that's how she's gotten her clients to Gordon. And so she's design buds place. And Shawn, this is like, another product of the types of the art and the decor that she sets up the coffee table that has holes in it. So you don't really think it's glass. It's like, I mean, this accent of that time. What

Sean Kinney:

was that? The glue on fake gold accents on the thing? Totally. But what do you think? Do you think that this movie was filmed in, let's say 86 If it was released in the 787 ever, but that was passable as good interior design. But, you know, Oliver Stone was just fucking with the audience go and look how absurd this is seeing. Well,

Jason Connell:

it was a movement that happened at that time. Obviously, that's not timeless. Like it didn't have timeless taste and Darren was just so eccentric. Right? She saw some of that like the go with those images on the wall of like, the skeleton people. Like she just pushed boundaries because there was no pushback from But Fox.

Sean Kinney:

And you're right. It was a movement it was extra money flying around. It's gonna have to find a home somewhere and everybody's an interior designer all of a sudden they're throwing this shit up and it's a bunch of bullshit. You know, it's just people getting in on a grift getting in on some extra money flying around. But when I'm seeing

Jason Connell:

Oh, she was greedy daring was greedy. Yeah, she was right. So

Sean Kinney:

Okay, so But hold on a second I think Oliver Stone is like thrown it in the audience's face and look how absurd this is like painting on gold because you just said how tech is it only looks tacky to people in hindsight you know in retrospect you look back on it god I can't believe that was passable for it was cutting at cutting edge but I think when Oliver Stone film the movie to put that in there just showed how it's just stupid money and this is what people were blowing their money on. This is tacky interior design that's passing for you know something, which back in 1986 That was kind of normal, but I think maybe he was just seeing through it going that's not normal. This is retarded.

Jason Connell:

Yeah. So now we have this like yuppies make dinner scene and buds on top of the world and this scene is hilarious from his outfit to the way they kind of coexist together. Like they make making dinner in a five hour thing making a play with all their new toys. Yes, there Yeah, they are in the sandbox now playing with all these new funny things. And so it's just indulgent.

Sean Kinney:

What's on the dinner menu, we got sushi, we got pasta we got what else is like five different things. None of it is similar, you know, in the wine.

Jason Connell:

Just want to make it it's what I like, if it was Instagram, this entire scene, they would have been capturing on Instagram because they did it to say they did it.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, good point. So this is Instagram before Instagram as well. Yeah.

Jason Connell:

Overindulgence, it didn't matter. It even save a little bit of the good life.

Sean Kinney:

She even says it in the scene. Isn't it just perfect. You don't want to eat it or something like that? Exactly. You're doing this to eat it. And it's just making it look pretty to make their lives more fulfilled. I guess I don't know

Jason Connell:

what's to me, all I see is to pretenders to land in this place that they don't really belong. They didn't earn. And guess what, they may not be here very long. It's how I see it.

Sean Kinney:

It goes back to that scene to where they're having dinner. And I'm going to drive my motorcycle across the world. And I'm wondering, and I want to do for interior design, what Lauren actually did for sweaters or whatever she

Jason Connell:

said, Take you public

Sean Kinney:

because I gotta go run to the bathroom again, do another bump. But you got two kids here that are making some dough. But it's not that world. They're not part of that this world now and they're trying so want to be out there spending that money to try to buy their way in, but they're not part of that world. What they

Jason Connell:

should have been doing. It's stuck in that money away. Yeah. Very fleeting. So anyway, yeah, please have dinner saying hilarious. So now we learn throw away thing or not. We learned that Gordon and Darien have a past. And it's a little in October. Bud said he doesn't need to know this. But this is why Darren has a career.

Sean Kinney:

And I'm not surprised or shocked when what even the first time I saw him like yeah, I didn't blink twice obvious. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And he he uses a she's a pawn from Bengal, Darien to butter, whoever is working for him at the time.

Jason Connell:

I had a little respect for Darren here because she wanted it kept secret private from but that's cool. You know, she really is building a fondness for bud because he's an up and comer. And they're kind of from probably humble beginnings. I would say I'm assuming Darren was as well. And so yeah, it's a little throwaway thing, take it or leave it. But I liked that sequence. And I'm glad they put it in there and just kind of connected that dot for us.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, it's cool too, because, and you can tell and that sequence. Well, Gordon Gekko, he is part of that world. He's a player in that world. He's at the auction $5 million art. He wants to go get a hotel at the Carlyle with Darien and they're looking at watches. He's part of that world.

Jason Connell:

Oh, yeah, absolutely. He has now he belongs to Gordon didn't used to be but he belongs. Yeah, yeah, he definitely belongs and he wears it well. So now this leads to Gordon Gekkos. Greed is good speech. Which what I read about and you spoke his name earlier was inspired by Ivan Boesky. Is it the

Sean Kinney:

I think it's boskie. I might have pronounced it wrong earlier. I've always said it's boskie.

Jason Connell:

And so it's a speech at the University of California's commencement ceremony in 1986. And in his speech, boskie said, greed is all right. By the way, I want you to know that I think greed is healthy, you can be greedy and still feel good about yourself. So you know, stone took that and turn it into this great speech, which by the way, this is the speech that puts Michael Douglas over the top for the Oscar. You got to have that moment in the movie and like this was the defining moment. And it's a great speech to enjoy the whole scene.

Sean Kinney:

It's bloated, bureaucracy corporate, it's the shareholder meeting which grandma's there every shareholder you can think of is in the in the audience and,

Jason Connell:

and it was a big monologue. Do I remember reading like Douglas was intimidated. By dialogue, because he's that's a long monologue, and that room is full of people actors are not. That's a big audience. So wonderfully done. And I just, it's a great fit in there. It's amazing. Amazing. And so, and it wasn't as passive as boskie. I'm glad that they just went heavier with it. Greed is good. You know, I just love it. Because it was Rackable. I mean, Gordon has that fire and I mean, he's a great villain. That's what makes it great.

Sean Kinney:

But for a villain, you sure are rooting for him throughout the movie, at least I was.

Jason Connell:

Well, hey, sometimes you root for the villains, right? Darth Vader is pretty cool. So yeah, I like a good villain.

Sean Kinney:

That's a great speech. It's a great speech. Great monologue. And it's a great scene. And that's a turning point in the movie, too. Yeah, the movie takes a different turn a different pace altogether. Once they're in the air on that private jet. He pitches them the deal the rising star. Yeah.

Jason Connell:

Well, so to that point, but is getting cocky. And he's really pushing blue star and this private jet scene. And geckos like, you know, whatever. I look at deals all day long. You know, this guy's really hot and heavy. This kid wants me to buy an airline. Yeah, you know, Gordon's not gonna rush into something unless he sees the score. He knows the score.

Sean Kinney:

And the last thing Gordon is interested in is hard work. He's on an honest and honest nature that's going to take work and sorted out and he sees inefficiencies and all that stuff that make mergers and acquisitions, mergers and acquisitions and profitable and all that stuff. He's looking for a quick buck. And you know, if the audience hasn't figured out yet that he didn't make he's not finding that jet based on hard work. Maybe in the case of tilled our paper. Sometimes when he got to the valve and something we saw some edge and tilled our paper, but now he's in a quagmire, and he can't get out and he's got it. He's in for the duration that one but what piques his interest to side with But Fox in the plane to the idea of blue star as soon as he says overfunded pensions, and that's when Gordon thinks to himself, okay, there's my edge. There's something I can go after there.

Jason Connell:

That's it. I know the score. i No matter what I got value, and I can do whatever it takes. Exactly, exactly. He's not going to do but a favor. He's got to see the angle, right. That's who he is. I get it. Although I think partly he kind of wants to explore but and what is it really? And maybe kind of, he's his protege? I'll hear right from the Dhamma bone. What is this? And so that leads me to this scene with blue star, which, you know, it's got Carl his father, it's got some other heads and heads of the union and different people. But I love at Budds place and you got Darien there. It's like that kind of impractical, that meeting will probably go down somewhere else, but I didn't like the movie. It's good.

Sean Kinney:

I liked it. So that's one scene I just did not like out of the whole movie. I don't know why it wasn't bad. It wasn't a bad. But it's an important scene. But it's affected. It's after stupid plays, and it's flooded. I call BS on Carl shows up in his bowling Jack and there's no lawyers there. And it's not you know, and what do you know there is a lawyer there and he takes a walk around the block a couple 100 Tucker right. But I'm seeing in here you got a broker with these charts in this pamphlet on a five point plan on how they're going to run an errand

Jason Connell:

Not gonna happen. That's not going to happen there. But I think that stone was like do we do this in another boardroom? We've already had some scenes like this so I can get why they did it. And it really highlighted back to what we talked about earlier. Their apartment that God Inez the times he really got to highlight his creation with their apartment. Maybe it

Sean Kinney:

was to contrast Carl walking in the door just pissing in the Kool Aid, you know, like, oh, man

Jason Connell:

talk about doomsday. He just brings it a Yeah, he's just

Sean Kinney:

he brings in a dose of reality that everybody I think that might have been why he placed that scene like he did. And I

Jason Connell:

think it's a good scene in the sense that listen, like it or not, I like it. But you have Martin Sheen. And Michael Douglas. This is it. This is the one encountering an entire movie. These is power actors. And they're very different places in this movie. And so I thought that was a great moment is to see them even just shake hands. It didn't last long. And it's hilarious to see badness pitching. You know, he takes it away. He's so cocky. He's we're gonna take on the major so we're gonna say so cheesy is so cheesy, but perfectly done. Because that that needed to be cheesy.

Sean Kinney:

Some tells me Carl's not approving of his son's place in life at this point with the girlfriend and Gekko in the apartment, especially the apartment. And when they hand them at the plate of sushi that he drops to the table.

Jason Connell:

It looks like glass. There's no glass and, and then of course Darren says, oh, but does that all the time? Yeah, okay, SMART. SMART was red wine last night, but hey, you can afford a new rug is it's just buds money. It's all pretend. Yeah. It's ridiculous.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, right, right. Don't fix it, Nicholas, because it's

Jason Connell:

art. You couldn't pay me to have that stupid coffee table, let alone spend 10k on it or whatever the hell yeah, for sure. So now, this meeting this scene really starts to spiral this movie to another level. It's no longer the gears are you know, it's a different movie entirely. The train's coming off the track. Yeah. And so I love how but now visits a very spooked James Spader because he was visited by the Feds I guess sniffing around and of course bud comes in with sunglasses hooked oh, cool for school. Totally coked up like hey, man, they got nada they got nothing okay cocky guy like

Sean Kinney:

everybody's dealing in

Jason Connell:

five minutes even a hotshot for five seconds to chill out

Sean Kinney:

right absolutely nothing to worry about but Fox right then we got this guy's got Law School his whole Law everything he's got a lot more to lose the But Fox I think so. That's why he's a little backward. He's a little bit more scared. He knows laws he's a lawyer he knows laws so

Jason Connell:

well. He's married he's got like you said his future is defined this could only it you know running in

Sean Kinney:

son tells me James face character, his money in his career me more to him than probably Margie out in Oyster Bay. So I think he's concerned because he knows law. He's a lawyer and he has a lot to lose.

Jason Connell:

But this sequence leads to really an incredible moment of reality check for bud Fox who's never the same. He kind of happens to be there when Spader is called in to the meeting because his own firm is doing the what the deal for blue star. And this sheds light on all I mean, the honeymoon is over. So what happens

Sean Kinney:

they lower the boom, they lower the boom they're in they're in a due diligence meeting or whatever, it's financing. They got bankers there that are I don't know what they're doing to be honest with you. Basically what they're seeing is the company is gonna get busted up and it's gonna go through a leveraged buyout and he's gonna keep the overfunded pensions is basically what it turns out to be and being naive as bud Fox is and altruistic as he thinks he may be. You know, he gets a big dose of reality right then on the spot. And that's yeah, there's

Jason Connell:

some great lines as well, like, Gecko is gonna make X amount and you're like, the fastest CEO or some

Sean Kinney:

as their faces are fading out of the scene. You can hear him chatter maker. Yeah, since that. No, it's just that Archduke of I think he's talking about Franz Ferdinand or whoever who got blown away. That started World War One or whatever it was barely here and as he's trailing out of there, yeah.

Jason Connell:

But as a man without a country, this is it. It's over the honeymoon is over. He knows blue stars going down, but has, well he feels horrible, because he's still got a conscious and feelings. He's let the entire airline down. It's over his father, everybody he grew up with. It's done. And so he's got to choose sides. And now Shawn, what I noticed was, it's not like he even thought twice about it. His allegiances were with the airline, immediately. I mean, I thought that was one thing that bothered me when I saw it in the theater when it first came out. I was like, Oh, wow, he doesn't even want to, like go and get go on this. Like it's over. He knows that he's gonna go confront him, which leads to a great same, but he knows it's over. And I always thought, Oh, I thought they maybe would have tried and, but no, you know,

Sean Kinney:

I always was like, I was younger than I mean, you just change your thoughts and stuff. But old mean, still, part of me is like, who cares? You're still gonna make a ton of money. And that's what you got into this thing to begin with in the first place. Did you really, what are your qualifications to be a CEO of an airline, zilch. You're a broker, you're going to be a broker to make a lot of money in Wall Street, and you know, you got a shot to make a lot of money on Wall Street. Your dad's just gonna have to deal with that.

Jason Connell:

And he could a paid his dad off. Yeah, he called it a day.

Sean Kinney:

Sorry, Dad. You raised me, you know? Yeah. So

Jason Connell:

yeah, well, he wanted it all. He wanted it all. I wanted this perfect thing. And it wasn't meant to be so yeah, you're right. He could have just went along with the ride. But that one ending and it makes for a more compelling movie that what happens happens, but I'm with you. I think that that to me, it was always such a dramatic turn. I thought wow, we're kind of missing some scenes because bud walks out of there dejected, but it's like, immediately Gekkos the enemy. Yeah, and that was interesting.

Sean Kinney:

And it just becomes awfully convoluted after this. And it's kinda like Oliver Stone and still great. I'm not taking anything away from the movie, but He's tying up a lot of loose ends to finish the film up after all this was done. But be happy like you make the money there could have been a different way. Maybe the end it whereas lessons get learned or something. Yeah. I think that he was going to try to you know, soak it all up with the whole final scene. I don't want to put any spoilers out there as we're working through this, but

Jason Connell:

Well, it's a 1987 We I think it's okay to have spoilers.

Sean Kinney:

Oh, as far as the podcast go,

Jason Connell:

and even if they haven't seen it yet ideally they would see it before they listen to a podcast about sad movie but hey, whatever

Sean Kinney:

you're seeing we can't sell it to him. We can't hype it up enough.

Jason Connell:

Oh yeah, that's the roll. We're hype that's what

Sean Kinney:

I thought you had me on here for a hair.

Jason Connell:

We're here to make you fall in love with that movie

Sean Kinney:

but I don't know I don't know if that makes me bad or not but thinking about how you know long I was just like, you know you got in this to make money and here you're gonna make it out. This is it. You can be able to ride your motorcycle across the world. You

Jason Connell:

can take dairy ins thing public. Yeah, but nope, nope. So then there's this melodramatic breakup scene with Darien which leads to finding out that buds dad Carl is in the hospital. All this kind of happens coincidentally, you know, whatever buds that we already set up the fact that he smokes a lot and shouldn't his cholesterol is high and all that stuff, yada, yada, yada. So it's a little movie moment,

Sean Kinney:

basically. But Fox put his dad in the hospital.

Jason Connell:

Exactly. Now, what I did like about this exchange was it was a powerful thing. I mean, like it or not the setup. It is a powerhouse of an actor marching in the hospital, and Charlie Sheen was tapping into some of the real emotions from his dad's real life heart attack that happened while filming Apocalypse Now. The infamous Francis Ford Coppola movie. No, he really had a heart attack and the family went to go visit him. And like I've read Emilio esta vez, his book and his account about this. There was a very similar moment. So he tapped into that. And this scene is actually really well done. It's a tender moment. Yeah, whatever needed to be said because Oh, we didn't talk about they had a serious blow up after the meeting at Budds parked in the elevator. And that was a great exchange. They were screaming at each other. The elevator? Yeah, they have it. So they have it out. And they probably had it out in real life many times. So that was its own.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, they were they were letting some things out in that scene. And it was good to see. And those were their last words before he wanted lands in the hospital after he finds out that his son got him in a situation he's going to lose the airline. Then he has a heart.

Jason Connell:

Exactly. So in there, he asked his father if he can speak to the board and his words, not his and so yeah, it's nice. It's it's not cheesy. It's not melodramatic. It's a great moment. And you know, Bud Fox, you know what team he's on. He's on Team Blue Star. He's not on Team Galco. anymore. GG, that's over. So bud goes back into I like to call it hustler mode to save the airline and not to save the airline Sean, but to crush Gecko. That's the plan. And how does he do that? Well, you're gonna need someone like Sir Wildman to pull this off. Because wildlands got a lot more money than gecko has. And he's already been burned, which is also nice about the script. He's got all the motivation, all the motivation. And we've already set it up. He's been burned. So it's perfect. So this leads up to a great scene in geckos office and kind of speak to that scene when the when the board comes in, and things are kind of spinning out of control. So maybe tell the listeners like what's going on. And how is Gecko getting burned? Exactly,

Sean Kinney:

yes. So he's long all this stock and Bluestar because he's going to take the company over and he's going to tender and he's going to do the garage sale, as they say, and all this time, he's been accumulating the stock, and he's sitting on a ton of it. And you know, the news is out that the deal is going to be falling apart. And the unions aren't going to be signing up for it. And here's bud Fox and out rumors on the trading floor. And he's calling up. You know, blue horseshoe whoever that is

Jason Connell:

blue horse who loves anacott Still.

Sean Kinney:

Exactly. I love that part. I love it. So he should should

Jason Connell:

be your ringtone.

Sean Kinney:

So yeah, he's basically, you know, and here's the other thing, is he manipulating the stock, I guess a little bit but at the same time, the union reps are out there spreading rumors, and they're not going to sign up for it and the deal is going to fall apart. And that's causing the stock to go lower. And at some point geckos, he's gonna have to cut his losses,

Jason Connell:

and then they have stamped their wild men. What afterwards

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, so But Fox, you know, great scene and when it goes, geckos standing in that front of that big window in his office, and I am losing millions and he's screaming at both Fox on the through the phone and he said, The he says, I don't remember what the stock price where he goes as your broker, I advise you to take it. He dumps the stock and he's not happy it was it was one of the toughest days he's ever had and the light on the window goes from light to dark. And if you've ever noticed that before, like, oh, wow, that's nice. The sun's going down on geckos asked basically,

Jason Connell:

and Wildmon, though why he got in bed with him while he was waiting in the wings

Sean Kinney:

to scoop up some stock. And so, later that evening, geckos sitting in his office at home knock and Scotch is back because he had a rough day. And just to add some salt in the wound, he's watching the Nightly Business News and he sees will sir Larry Wyman and his nemesis face splashed across, he's going to come in and buy blue star after all, so

Jason Connell:

and so what we didn't talk about earlier Wildeman was really trying to build another company was anacott still. So he was trying to build that and Gecko got him and did his corporate raider and made money profited, and people lost jobs. So fox went to Wildman because he knew that he actually cares about his investments. And he would also see the upside and an airline and blue star and also getting Gecko in the process. So it wasn't like another corporate raiders coming in here. Fox knows that wild men will do right by blue

Sean Kinney:

stone. Like we said, it was a nice tidy little package and plenty of motivation tidy. It was all on a silver platter. All he needed was the bucks of Sir Larry Wildman to put it all together. And that's what it was, you know, that didn't get too lost in the details of the trade and the scheme that went down to pull it off. But that's kind of what it was. Gecko held a bunch of Bluestar stock. It went lower because of Bud Fox behind the scenes. And then he dumped a stock winds up selling to Sir Larry light. Well, I'm sure Larry Wildman was the bid on the other side of that stock that Gecko wind up selling to.

Jason Connell:

Yeah, I agree. I would say that Fox is a very fitting name for this character. Wise and cunning and like a box. Yeah. You know, he's clever. And this is resourceful. And this is what he did. He he went on this ride, found himself screwed up, saved it but Baldwins Gekko loses but but is going to jail for insider trading. And I love Shawn that the feds picking him up not at home and and not getting a copy. They come right to the office and Cuff him in front of everybody. I guess it's how it went down.

Sean Kinney:

And apparently that's true stuff like back then they were right out of the right out of the office. Yeah. Which is awesome.

Jason Connell:

Wow. Yeah. He's starting to cry. Because that man, here's the guy that you know, everyone's got an ego and everyone looks at him. And he's the last guy to know, again, he's the last one to show up for work. He walks in and his secretaries even this like

Sean Kinney:

Oh, yeah. Somebody die. Yeah. You know. Yeah. You know, Jason and here's something to say about this is that remember, stock watch? You know, they're the surveillance, right trading surveillance, they're always lurking in the scenes like the do quick shots, these two nerds sitting around reading Oh, yeah, these printouts of stock transactions that looks suspicious. Which, by the way, stock watch is a real thing. I don't think it's around anymore. It's been replaced by FINRA and all these other things. But stock watch was part of New York Stock Exchange that would monitor suspicious trading and alert authorities and but they're lurking you know what I mean? Here we got it looks like we got a guy at Jackson Steinem who's by and large blocks at tilt our paper and parking it in an offshore account, you know, and yep. And then they show the part with the plot to say blue star just it's kind of funny. Like you're anticipating there's some legal problems headed but foxes away just

Jason Connell:

the trail. Yeah. Right to have. And

Sean Kinney:

if you if you can't figure it out, he's just throwing stock watch scenes in there, just so to let you know that there's something coming up for about Fox, he's not going to be the white knight that he thinks he is.

Jason Connell:

Well, and so what do you do? Well give somebody up he gives Gecko up and Gecko loses again, this leads to this great shot. I love the scenes. It's dreary day, gray day that almost looks like London. And it's a great shot of Central Park, and the big lawn, the big lawn, but I love that they just walk out in the middle of nowhere in the rain and meet and I always question why on earth does Gecko even meet with bud and that setting like there's no reason that he wants to kick his ass? You get one pot. She gets any but he was pissed if he was pissed, but he could have had a phone call. Yeah, but could have went to the club. Whatever. He punches him. He divulges some things. And then bud walks to the tavern on green. Because all the way in the restroom, and then you reveal he was wired. Great moment. It's a great sequence. It's

Sean Kinney:

a beautiful scene in the park. Oh, rainy. Nobody's in the park. It's the middle of the day. Oh,

Jason Connell:

by the way, it's no one that's out there, which is so rare in New York City.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah. Even on a rainy day. They show all those beautiful buildings in Midtown there on the south side of the park. And it's just quintessential New York.

Jason Connell:

It really is. He nailed that. It's wonderful. And then really, we have this last moment in the movie. And it was always interesting to me that they're in this car. It's Carl. He's out of the hospital. He's driving now. And you have been in the car And you also have Mrs. Fox play yeah. Millie Perkins who by the way, she looks like bud sister. More than his mother in the same. Quite Yeah, so Carl did pretty well. She doesn't have much to do but he pulls up he's gonna go find parking buddy. Let's see him out to go up the, you know, I guess City Hall is that worth turning to?

Sean Kinney:

He's headed to jail

Jason Connell:

why percent jail? Yeah

Sean Kinney:

he's he's he's gone to court his legal problems are just beginning

Jason Connell:

but he found himself in the process back where he started Iran from who you are and who you're supposed to be and it all comes full circle so but it's gonna go to jail but not as long as Gecko and so what happens to bud Fox is he does he have any money leftover from this whole thing no

Sean Kinney:

I'm gonna say no I'm gonna say there was a Fed comes in they take all the money they're gonna take all this money that's gonna be gone because he sells the number he sells the house I mean the condo yeah he sell the condo he has to sell at a fire sale. Yeah, so I don't think

Jason Connell:

he has areas gone. She's already broke up. I don't think he's gonna happen to him though is he have a job that Bluestar waiting for him.

Sean Kinney:

Well, he's definitely a convicted but he's an expert. He got taped up and wired any kind of deal. I'm sure he probably got a misdemeanor. I don't think he serves jail time if I was to guess, because he wore a wire and he brought down somebody higher than him much higher Gekko.

Jason Connell:

That's true. He probably just got his life. His career was whitewashed, and he has to go on a different line of work, but But you know, but Fox land on his feet.

Sean Kinney:

He was gonna say he's a hard worker and He's ambitious. He found himself again.

Jason Connell:

I bet you anything. He buddies up with Wildman who works at Blue Star. There you go. Yeah, that's this guy as this guy. And they both took down the gecko, GG. And I bet you anything that's by what happened.

Sean Kinney:

And Wileman seems like the kind of guy that would do something like that. Oh, come on. Yeah.

Jason Connell:

Hey, you were there for me. You know, these people? You're out of that racket. Come work for me.

Sean Kinney:

You made me a lot of money with this blue star thing? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And not only not only did you help me take down Gecko, you put his ass in jail on top of that. I mean, totally. He definitely owes him a bone. That's it a middle management job at Blue Star.

Jason Connell:

And then I love when movies ended in the 80s. Because, you know, as they're older, but it's really on board. It says the end as he

Sean Kinney:

walks up the steps, and they roll into talking heads again,

Jason Connell:

a little this must be the place again. Yeah, what a great reprise for that. So what a great movie holds up so perfectly today. I mean, yes, it captures a different era. But the movie still works. She's It does. Yeah. And it will always work because it's that well done. It's a well crafted tale rise and fall and greed and you know, and every time I watch it, it's like, it's that type of movie you put it on, and no matter where it's at, you're just in for the ride, you know, the beats, but you still wanted to see them play out. Sometimes hoping something different happens. Or you might see it a different way or something you missed.

Sean Kinney:

Yeah, you're right. You see the movie like this so many times and you think different? Like we've probably touched on a few times. But this is the only way it could have been done that I can think Yeah, yeah, I would have liked to seen bud Fox been a little bit more Cavalier. But so what you're gonna bust up Bluestar I'm gonna walk away with a lot of money and maybe work for an ending that way, but this is what it is. And I liked the scene. I mean, he pays his dues. He takes down Gekko he goes to jail, or maybe he goes to jail. And you know, he covers it all. And a lot of those guys did go to jail. I mean, they all did. Even the guys that made deals, it seemed like wind up doing a little time.

Jason Connell:

Now Gekko, I know what the jail for a long time because there is this dreadful sequel, but I think it's like 20 years later, so he did some time. Now it may have been like, white collar time, but he did some time.

Sean Kinney:

It was tough time, but I think it was white collar and I think from the sequel. It wasn't as long as you think it was like, it was like six years maybe? Or something. Okay. I don't think he did like a 20 year stretch or anything like

Jason Connell:

okay, but no sequel talk. And there you have it. You know, obviously, Gordon Gekko played but Michael Douglas was fantastic. He was well deserved of the Oscar. And so now I just got a little trivia. So Martin Sheen and Michael Douglas, who would team up in the American president in 1995. The Rob Reiner film written by Aaron Sorkin, and in that movie, Douglas played the president, and she played the Chief of Staff. Now, oddly enough, in 1999, Sorkin created the West Wing of which Shane played the president. So interesting that they met in this movie and they will both go on to play the American president and two different things. So kinda little tidbit little something. And I've already did mention this on mica Douglas was also working on fatal attraction at the same time To avoid scheduling conflicts, Douglas would alternate between each film during the week. Interesting. Wow, um, a little bit of this and then go there. That's pretty amazed. By

Sean Kinney:

I mean, big time that is fascinating. Friday go out of character and then put a different costume on and go to a different character over there. Yeah, no, that's Jason. That's impressive.

Jason Connell:

And then Douglas modeled his performance after his friend, Pat Riley, who at the time was head coach of the LA Lakers. Later, the Knicks and the Miami Heat, but probably where he got the haircut idea or the hairstyle idea. The old Pat Riley slicked back. Yeah. You know, not the typical Michael Douglas hair. He had a slicked back that just worked perfectly. He worked well, Gecko. Yeah, he worked very well. Couple more things. Richard Gere. Warren Beatty, Al Pacino, James Woods and William Peterson. All turned down the role of Gordon Gekko. Wow. I mean, I can't imagine anyone else doing it. But just think about who else?

Sean Kinney:

Warren Beatty. Richard Gere. Who else? Richard Gere. Warren

Jason Connell:

Beatty, Al Pacino James Woods and William Peterson. slits Peterson from Tel Aviv, ya

Sean Kinney:

know for sure. But it's got to be Douglas at all. I can't Oh, no. I

Jason Connell:

mean, Douglas they but they turned it down to get to Douglas. So how did you accident? Yeah. Yeah, I can't see anyone else playing this role of Michael Douglas. And I know that's kind of a cliche thing to say because he nailed it. He won the Best Actor. And maybe if Warren Beatty or Richard Gere had done it or Al Pacino shore, but it wasn't them. And Douglas this is like a role of a lifetime for him.

Sean Kinney:

I will say this. Yep. Put a gun to my head and tell me I got a cast. One of the other ones that I can't take Douglas. I would have gone Richard Gere. And here's why. Yeah, he plays a good villain. I don't care for him when they try to sex symbol of him back in the 80s and 90s. He was Oh

Jason Connell:

talk he's an American Gigolo and she

Sean Kinney:

glow breathless really good. He was good and internal affairs and get an old I'm going to say a movie similar to this but a little different. seems to matter is arbitrage which came out a few. Yes, and he plays a bad guy in it. And he's damn good. So I could see him for villa. I can see him doing well as Gordon Gekko if I had to choose a different one.

Jason Connell:

So now Oliver Stone gave Charlie Sheen the choice of having either Jack Lemmon or Martin Sheen play his father. Now we know what Charlie chose. But hey, Jack Lynch had also been drilling into the sea I know I can't I mean different vibe. Women is like no one is better than lemon I mean that she didn't hammer probably equal. But why that

Sean Kinney:

would have been a good choice. Yeah. Being the blue collar airline workers lemon could have pulled it on would

Jason Connell:

have been perfect and that but Sheen was incredible. So I almost wish that lemon had been someone else. You know, like Reagan put them on the trading floors to our our or put him in the

Sean Kinney:

up on the trade desk. Put them in the office. That would have been good to have him. Yeah, actually hold on a second in order good roll lemon would have been in. But it wouldn't have been a big enough role for him. You remember the guy that gets fired? The old man who just can't get a shit together? Yes. I'm telling what the guy is like all these new computers. And I don't know what's going on. And I got three divorces. And you know, I have no equity in the firm. Remember that? They they're gonna let him go. Yeah, but one

Jason Connell:

probably like you said a big enough role for him. Especially if it was gonna be Carl. So it's like, ah, yeah, bypassed, he may have been offered another role,

Sean Kinney:

right? He wasn't going to take the guy that gets fired that has like two speaking parts of that thing. But he would have done it. Well,

Jason Connell:

he would have done it very well. And my last little trivia, if you'll call it that is so Gordon Gekko with his ruthless, cold blooded pursuit of golden wealth makes him somewhat reminiscent of a bright yellow Vietnamese reptile, the golden Gecko. So maybe there's something there that Oliver Stone came up with the name and it was trivia that I saw I thought, oh, that's kind of interesting. Yeah, I didn't even know there was a golden GEQ.

Sean Kinney:

I had always wondered about the name myself. Now. There you go. There's a little

Jason Connell:

little tidbits. So that's it, folks that covers Wall Street. And does this make you want to see the movie again,

Sean Kinney:

you know, to go upstairs and get the DVD out, put it in? I've seen it so many times. But if it's on one of my channels, I'll definitely watch bits and pieces. I'm to the point now where if it's on, I'll just go to the parts that really mean something to me. You know, I've just seen it so many times. It's a long movie to sit through.

Jason Connell:

I love that you have a DVD of it. That just speaks volumes. Yeah, fan hood of the film.

Sean Kinney:

It's got a spot on the shelf along with some other Golden Oldies, but I've just seen the movie so many times. So But I'm glad we could talk about and you'd like to, you know, just as much as I did. It's

Jason Connell:

a great movie. Fantastic. It's kind of be there. To me.

Sean Kinney:

It's kind of the gold standard for these business movies when United has. We've had these conversations in the past out this genre of movies, but it's definitely the gold standard.

Jason Connell:

I agree. I totally agree. And I love a great movie that can even outshine bad sequel. I mean, Godfather one, and two are never diminished by Godfather three. It's like, they're just so strong. It's like, whatever, you can't tarnish it.

Sean Kinney:

And I'll say this too. As far as that being that gold standard, what you just said Godfather one, and two doesn't tarnish three, or vice versa. It's just the gold standard. So it's like I was exposed to this when I was a teenager. Well, actually, I take that back. I was in college. I remember in college. Yeah, but still, ever since then, when I see a movie that's similar. This I'm intrigued, I'll just tune in. Because, you know, I remember the thrill i got from that I get from Wall Street. So I'll tune into that movie arbitrage buy it with with a margin call, especially margin. Now a lot of that stuff is, you know, I have a career and some of that stuff to that lens to it. But it doesn't have to be market related movies about business. And thanks. I think a big reason why I'm such a fan of madmen is that, you know, we had discussed this, it's just the deals they make and how the money gets made, how the sausage gets made, so to speak. So and that's, and I owe a lot of that to Wall Street.

Jason Connell:

Well, there you have it. It was great having you on and maybe we'll bring you back for another movie. So thanks so much for listening. And please be sure to subscribe rate and review the show wherever you get your podcast. You can also follow us on social media at let's talk movies, or check out our other shows at just curious media.com. So without further ado, please enjoy Wall Street

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