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Let's Talk - Movies
A true movie lovers podcast celebrating great films worth revisiting or seeing for the first time. Host: Jason Connell, award-winning documentary producer & film/tv expert.
Let's Talk - Movies
Rocky IV: Rocky vs. Drago (2021) - Review
Let's Talk - Movies
Episode 20: Rocky IV: Rocky vs. Drago (2021) - Review
Jason Connell and Sal Rodriguez discuss Sylvester Stallone’s "Rocky IV: Rocky vs. Drago" Ultimate Director’s Cut and compare it with the Original "Rocky IV" which hit theaters in 1985.
Synopsis: Rocky Balboa proudly holds the world heavyweight boxing championship, but a new challenger has stepped forward: Drago, a six-foot-four, 261-pound fighter who has the backing of the Soviet Union.
Director: Sylvester Stallone
Writer: Sylvester Stallone
Cinematographer: Bill Butler
Cast: Sylvester Stallone, Talia Shire, Burt Young, Carl Weathers, Brigitte Nielsen, Tony Burton, Dolph Lundgren
Composer: Bill Conti
Original Episode: S01E20
Recorded: 03-14-22 & 11-15-21
Studio: Just Curious Media
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Welcome to Just curious media. This is let's talk movies. And I'm Jason Connell on the show. Today I'm talking about rocky for Rocky verse Drago. Now this isn't the movie that came out in 1985. It is not. This is the ultimate Director's Cut that sly Sylvester Stallone did. And 2021. Again, the original Rocky four, which I love came out November 27 1985. I saw it in the theater with my father. I always just he laid it over the moon, you got Ivan Drago, rocky Apollo Creed, things happen to him, no spoilers here. But we'll get into that. And the ultimate Director's Cut comes out. So I went to go see it on its premiere November 11th 2021. It has 40 plus minutes of new footage. I went to one of these Fathom Events. It was outstanding, but it was also an epic fail. And I want to get into more of that as well. But I'm just doing the broad strokes here because this episode actually premiered on Let's Talk Cobra Kai, because of the tie in between the Rocky franchise and the Karate Kid franchise. For instance, John G. Albertson, the director of Rocky and rocky five, he came back directed The Karate Kid the credit cut to the credit cut three. So there were a lot of times and Bill Conti did the score for all of them. So you can kind of tell like, oh, yeah, thematically, and just as uplifting story that holds up? Yeah, there's a lot of similarities. And there's good reason for that. So this episode, this review was done previously, we recorded it on December 1 2021. And I'm just doing a quick intro outro. And for those of you watching on YouTube Live, thank you for coming and joining in for sure. But to hear the audio of the rocky for Rocky verse Drago review, you have to go download this episode of Let's Talk movies, from any place that you get your podcast. It's well well worth it. Besides the connections we talked about between the rocky and the Karate Kid franchise. We go through the movie, we do comparisons, comments on both versions, what's new, what's missing, etc. It's a lot of fun. It really is also back to my epic fail. I talked about what happened to me the night in question and I went to go see it. Yes, it was cool. They had sly like simulcast throughout the country. And he did a kind of like q&a slash intro before the movie. It was neat, but I only got to see X amount of it because of technical difficulties. And that whole story will be shared in the middle of all this. And there will be the usual intro or outro that's connected. Let's talk Cobra Kai said don't be confused. But again, I wanted to bring it over here. This particular review belongs on Let's Talk movies as well. It's a hybrid episode, and a lot of fun. So, without further ado, please enjoy. Rocky for Rocky verse, Drago. Welcome to Just curious media. This is let's talk Cobra Kai. I'm Jason Connell.
Sal Rodriguez:And I'm Sal Rodriguez. All right, Sal,
Jason Connell:we are back for a really cool episode. I gotta say kind of our first.
Sal Rodriguez:Yeah, first in this universe, you know, you have these related universes. But this is indeed another universe that has the phrase I've been using lately cross pollination behind the scenes in production. So any Karate Kid a Cobra Kai fan, when you look at your cousin's, I would say rocky shores. That's what we're gonna talk about. Rocky is credit cuts cousin.
Jason Connell:Yeah, cuz Appletons like the father. So Okay. Well, we are talking about rocky for Rocky versus Drago review. Because we did the preview last week when you put this on my radar finding out this was an event. This has to do with Stallone going in and making a director's cut of rocky for the classic movie from 85. So I got all excited. And we did a preview. And now we're coming back to do a review of this new cut. So we should start where we left off. So
Sal Rodriguez:okay, so we were setting up. I was not able to get a ticket. Yeah, you were the one night only showing. You did land two tickets. I know you went I
Jason Connell:went Thank you. Wow, that's awesome. But yeah, so it was Thursday just last Thursday, November 11 2021 Fathom Events. Epic fail.
Sal Rodriguez:Oh.
Jason Connell:So we go, Boston, Massachusetts we go excited. Got my seats, reserved seats, super cushy recliner, I get their movie starts at eight, five o'clock on the West Coast, sitting in my seats early. I'm in there 750 Sal, I'm ready to go. I'm excited. Eight o'clock comes and I started thinking, all right, you know, it gets too long. He's live somewhere, you know, I didn't know where he was gonna be turns out he was in Philadelphia super cool, because that's where they made Rocky. And the statue is there. So and closer to you than I would get closer to me. I've actually seen the statue in real life, although I kind of want to see it again. Now I'm a little bit older. But sitting there eight o'clock turns into 810 Yeah. And you know, I worked in the movie theater in high school managed one and college. I know the theater industry. It's like, This isn't good. And no one's come inside to say, Hey, folks, because I'm thinking all I can think Sal is the live event because that's not waiting for Boston mass one screen right so I've gone honey, I don't I don't like this so I go the restroom. In restrooms right next door to the theater. Yeah, of all things. And I start to hear Stallone's voice when I'm in the restroom. So I back in there, and I come in and the q&a is happening our intro, whatever. I thought, well, I'll get into that in a minute. So it's happening and I'm just like, excited. But what am I missed? Right? Yeah, rushed to my seat. And I did something we joked about. Yeah, maybe filmed it. So I said, Screw it. I started recording Stallone's q&a, just so I can capture it and listen to it later. Wow. He goes for 13. May
Sal Rodriguez:you record an audio or video?
Jason Connell:Both at my chair. My section there.
Sal Rodriguez:Jason. I'm covering the microphone. Should we be talking about I didn't do anything with it.
Jason Connell:I didn't even leave. I've already sold many bootlegs. I always just like I want to capture it just to play it back. This is kind of surreal that it's just fly Philadelphia. It's really happening. However, we're coming in midstream. I mean, it's 815. Now, how long have you been on? I don't know. But I'm just enjoying it right? It's live and you're in a movie theater. Yeah. This is like this is so neat. And then he goes on to talk about how rocky would make and he's worked on this a great prequel TV series because he mentioned he can't go from current days because, well, Adrian's dead. Mickey's dead, Apollo's dead rock. He's older. And that's when he mentions Cobra Kai and the Karate Kid. I nearly thought I see that. So I was just like, oh my gosh, he's referencing our Bible for this show. And he's obviously fond of it, which was just blew my mind, first of all. And then he goes on to talk about things he wish he had changed, right? Because I don't even know where this is coming from making this director's cut. I think he was always happy with it. But over time, you might want to go in and tinker. And so he talks about he wished he hadn't killed creed. Like that's interesting. Okay. Wow, I never thought about that. Because he lost a voice a mentor, Mickey's dead, Adrian still alive and rocky for spoiler for the future. And he wishes he had injured him badly or had mental issues or something but kept creeping around. And there was this kind of like, downplay in the 80s. Like, you know, I go back and look at it. And it's like, fast cuts montages. Big hair. And I'm thinking, Yeah, but that was the ad. So that was the time it was the time. And I think you even said that he was kind of cutting it to MTV, and what was out there at the time, right. So anyway, so then boom, it's over. And he's like, gracious, and it's a great intro. And, and I'm thinking is that the intro? And there's a q&a after because in our festivals, what I used to run, there was an intro and a q&a was something different, right? Sure. And show the filmmaker, let them know you're there. And then after the movie will evolve digested, it will do a q&a. Oh, yeah. Well, so I don't know this, right. So he goes off screen goes black. I'm like, wow, he lated talking to my girlfriend like that was really neat. The way he talked about Cobra Kai and the Karate Kid, and then nothing happens. Five minutes turns to 1010 turns to 15 I get up go in the hallway. Other people are milling around. No one's come in the theater. People are just starting to get anxious and what's going on music theater, pretty bad. Not a huge theater. Maybe it holds. I don't even know 75 100 but fairly full 75% 80% Full. And people are starting to go out and on on someone says you know what's happened. They didn't get the hardcopy from Fathom Events. They're trying to get this going. They don't have a hardcopy. They're trying to download a 4k blu ray right now and it's just barely coming down and I'm going what in the world? How does this I call this theater last weeks and you're gonna have this thing interactive with Stallone, you got everything set. I know how this works is one off events can be squirrely, sometimes, right? There can be technical issues, and there's no take back. You know, it's like we're moving. It's like us going live and Now you just keep moving. So I'm thinking I'm not mad, but I'm, here's a stronger word sow hope I'm disappointed. Oh, yeah.
Sal Rodriguez:Well, it's like disappointed gets you in the fields. And I'm starting
Jason Connell:to think even if they got it going now, is there a q&a after? Because they didn't they weren't clear in the beginning. So I'm thinking, if you started now, I ended and you just missed alone as he did a q&a Because again, I wasn't sure. So finally, we wait maybe 1520 more minutes that I just say, hey, we can just get this thing at midnight or tomorrow on Apple or Amazon. I feel like I saw Stallone that was so cool. It's getting later. And I'm also under the impression that there's 40 more minutes tacked on to the original runtime. So I'm guessing like, is this a two and a half hour three hour movie now? Yeah. And it's already like getting up there in time. So we leave the theaters gracious. I don't want to throw them under the bus. They give us free tickets, give me the refund. And they did confirm that the intro was also the q&a. So he wasn't coming back on.
Sal Rodriguez:So I just did the host asked questions he did it was
Jason Connell:a guy from Turner movie classics. So they've been making it and they were having a good exchange. But the theater was there like we didn't get the thing. And I wasn't about to take jabs. Tape. But I was disappointed for sure. And we drove home. But it was neat to have seen Stallone and I got a cool shot of the marquee, which I posted. And I got this snippet of Stallone talking about Cobra Kai and cool snippet. 10 seconds threw it up there in the social media world and went home and it was already too late. But I did buy it. Rocky versus Drago on Apple iTunes and washed it on Saturday. No Stallone intro. So what I got is what I got. But that was my experience.
Sal Rodriguez:Jason, let me just say a couple quick things. First of all, we don't know for certain just in the in the defense of Fathom Events, because I've had nothing but good experiences with Fathom Events. So we don't know. Actually, if it was the theaters issue or Fathom Events issue, it's sort of a probably he said she said type thing. So just to be clear on that. But this also, man, I say this, I will say this until my dying breath. Every event needs a host of moderator and emcee every event. And I'm not just saying that. So you'll hire Sal Rodriguez. No, I'm not just saying that every event needs a live emcee there they do to be your guide to tell everyone what the hell is going on. Had I
Jason Connell:known I would, I would have been there early to make sure they got what they needed. This is how I run. I'm very dialed in that way. And I understand the crowd this time I am the crowd and I understand that too. I love the Arclight theatres, they come in before the movie, they talk to you. They tell you the running time who's in the movie, and they stand on the side and make sure everything plays good. And they go on their merry way. Now our lights ended because the pandemic unfortunately, I missed that they didn't come in the theater. Now this is not on fathom the theater didn't come in one time sent no one in to address us. And I feel like you just got to do that we can all understand if you keep us abreast of the situation, or you let people start to kind of mill around and good ideas and get upset. Never a good thing. No, no, I don't even know if it ever played there. I haven't confirmed even went off.
Sal Rodriguez:Well. So well. Jason let me just piggyback on that not to be Debbie downers here. But there was a little a few issues that again, don't know if it was Fathom or the local theaters. But there were some issues here in Los Angeles in my local area about showtimes. Yeah, because the Fathom event said this time the local theaters website says this time and then the management just goes by their theaters website. So believe me I went through a little runaround before I even found out I couldn't even get a ticket anyway. Right. But even so had I bought a ticket. I may have walked in at the wrong time.
Jason Connell:You just missed a loan or halfway through a rocky restaurant. Exactly. And you would have been more mad had you just stayed home you know, so yeah. I didn't carry that to buy in the movie. I got it fine. So I'm happy to own it. And Saturday evening. I jumped in and I watched it. Well, and I hadn't seen this to be perfectly clear. I hadn't seen rocky for in a while. I really haven't. It may have been the 90s late 90s since I'd seen it for whatever reason I hadn't revisited so I'm going off of that assault in the theater 85 assault in the 90s I know it well. I mean, I saw it a few times and I got a really good memory especially for cinema. But I went in immediately there were some things that stood out we can go over some of this stuff some of the stuff some of our takeaways are overall review this is not going to be a scene by scene breakdown. We didn't have the time we're not doing that from let's talk movies or when we do the credit kid credit kid 123 I said the original and one are the upcoming ex parte kid or even a episode of Cobra Kai. We're not going to break it down like that. But I do have some takeaways and some tie ins to tie it to the credit card universe as we talked about. My overall impressions was I really enjoyed it and I guess It made me kind of reverse engineer like, well, let me see what I really what was new, I feel things are new. There's some sequence of things. So I then watched the original cut on Sunday. So I was like, you know, that'll give me a clearer view of like, where to deviate where it dimmed what's new. And it's so nice that there's this new footage, I gotta say, I love it. But it made me start thinking like, what was the cause of this? Because if you ask me right now, was it better? No. I think the original cut stands on its own great film.
Sal Rodriguez:Well, you know, it's funny, Jason is how we'll turn it into a match the new film versus the old film, who's going to win, you know, like, it's not about believe me. I've been thinking all day about this. Yeah. It's not about which one is better. It's not a contest. Now among the films. Our mind wants to go there, I think. Yeah. But yeah, different is the word I think people
Jason Connell:might ask me like, Oh, what do you like more? What's the original will always be what it was, to me sounds young, the theater the impression on, you can't tarnish that. This isn't George Lucas getting a hold of something, and scoring with it. And we're all doing it rolls. This is subtle, there are some things we'll talk about. And I think no matter what, it's got us talking about rocky for again, or the franchise as a whole. And that's the winner. Really, I have nothing but respect the utmost respect for Stallone and everything he created because he embodies this character. And if he wants to go in there and felt like it was in him, I don't know if he has this goal for Rocky rocky to Rocky three, rocky five, which he also said in that q&a. It was a miss it didn't work. And it was neat to hear him say that because I couldn't agree more. And Rocky Balboa did it was a good way to end it unless they do something new. But I don't know if he has this in him on the other ones. I don't know why it was just for you. But again, it really got us talking how it got me buying a movie from the 80s Watching both versions and doing a deep dive today on my notes. So it's working,
Sal Rodriguez:and props for buying it. I just rented it. And the way these streaming services you you rent the movie, you got to watch it within 30 days. And then you got to watch it within 24 hours of starting the movie. And then once I watched it, I don't think I can watch it again. Who's making all these rules? I mean, it's crazy. So yeah, cuz I wanted to just before you and I got on our podcast, I wanted to revisit a few things about the movie. No, it's
Jason Connell:too late. So we did a real short preview episode, but then there's a bigger story. And it's exciting. I'm happy to share it because it was like homework for me. So you said something before we came on, and we were planning this episode like, yeah, maybe we should connect the dots more because we can make assumptions.
Sal Rodriguez:Sure. Well, I want to make sure all of our listeners know. Because you know what, Hey, I didn't know before I started going on the Cobra Kai Karate Kid journey. Yeah. The connections between the Karate Kid and the Rocky franchise, the cross pollination, that's gonna be my new word that is like, you know what song was going to be here now. It's going to be there. The director was here now the director is over there. So there are definitely some connections between the two worlds.
Jason Connell:Absolutely. And I said this on last episode, but I'll say it again quickly. writer director, Sylvester Stallone, so those who don't know it, he wrote every Rocky movie, so yeah, kudos. And he directed rocky to Rocky three, rocky four and Rocky Balboa, which was essentially the sixth. Now here's where the cross pollination happens. Director John G. Abelson directed rocky at one Best Picture and 77 and he also directed rocky five. And the Karate Kid The Karate Kid. Part Two, The Karate Kid part three. That's our link one of our links one of our links. Yeah, you know and all the similarities the time Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what it is.
Sal Rodriguez:At the end when you get picked up propped up. I'm seeing Daniel there. Exactly. Daniel it's
Jason Connell:probably is no The Karate Kid. Because it's that tone Iraqi wanted. It's a sweet underdog story. And then here is now the difference is and rocky does not win. And the Karate Kid. They're like the dogs. Were in the 80s. Now rocky came out when movies are tragic. It came out in the 70s like 76 So you could have a downer ending and they got it right. Well, not right. But they had him winning rocky two and subsequent movies after that. So that's the link wanna Jason
Sal Rodriguez:just hang on? Seriously, I'm feeling a little lightheaded. Now. We're getting into some Back to the Future stuff because hopefully we're there no rocky there probably wouldn't be the Karate Kid holy cow
Jason Connell:or if there was it would not have had that magic that John G Appleton he just knew how to make it still works today. Think of that in the wrong hands or say there's no macho or say there's no Marita and someone else made their credit cut so I can't say maybe it existed because came and wrote it but so many movies never seen the light of day. Right? This was in the right hands. Hey, you know should do Do this. Apple said, Look what I did with Rocky. Yeah. Okay, trust him get out of his way and let him make the movie he wanted to. So yeah, we are very lucky that the planets aligned and that's the guy that got it now. The music you ask? Yes, yes, another key tie in great legendary composer, Bill Conti.
Sal Rodriguez:Nice as you and I talk things come to my mind the rocky music itself the score itself unreal. It transcends the movies themselves transcends it. I mean, you don't even have to be a rocky fan to hear that music and go Yeah, and start getting jacked up, you know?
Jason Connell:It's just so uplifting. And now just the imagery, Alison Stallone and the music Conde. So what did Conte do? Well, I'll get into this. I'll have to backtrack some of these notes, but all of the Rocky movies. Wow, all of the Karate Kid movies. Wow. Including the next party kid which was uncredited? Well, we'll save that for the deep dive of the next party kid. Yes, yes, yes. But people like to work with other people. When they create this kind of masterpieces. I mean, how many times a Steven Spielberg work with John Williams, over and over again, because that connection just worked? Well. This is another one of those connections. And so I have a few notes here about the music in the movie because you brought this to my attention is like yeah, let's drop this. We've talked about this on our special episode of the deep dive with the Karate Kid gotta get part two and three. But we might as well say it here because this is that cross pollination. Yeah, so rocky four is actually the only rocky film in which the music is not composed by Bill Conti. put a note in that just a second. We're gonna get back to that. Who chose to score the Karate Kid Part Two instead? Because these were coming out the same time. He had to pick one. So rocky for Karate Kid part two. Coincidentally, Peter SubTerra originally wrote The Karate Kid to Theme Song Glory of love for Rocky for
Sal Rodriguez:what? I don't even remember that.
Jason Connell:And we quickly brushed over that in the past. I think on that special episode when we broke down Peter esoterical re love video, which is hysterical. Highly recommend it. But Sylvester Stallone rejected the song in favor of
Sal Rodriguez:hearts on fire. Wow.
Jason Connell:So there's that and who sang hearts on fire. I think you have that. bit of trivia for us.
Sal Rodriguez:Right here hearts on fire sung by John Cafferty, but was written by Vince de cola, Ed fruit or fruit. And Joe Esposito Joe bean Esposito. Yes, there's
Jason Connell:another link. There's another link so I'll get to him in just a second here. And back to Conte, the 2021 Director's Cut. Stallone would reuse several cues from Bill Conti score in the original Rocky films. So therefore he is now touching all of the Rockies. So he wasn't in there when he went back and I was hearing that score in there watching this new version going oh yeah, there's that I wasn't I didn't think that it was not in there the whole time. I didn't even realize it. So this is a great thing that he did. So now Conte is wonderful score is throughout the whole franchise. Now. A song a little song titled your the best performed by
Sal Rodriguez:Joe Esposito, Joe being Josephine Esposito
Jason Connell:was recorded for the film. Rocky for that is, however, still rejected. It was in favor of survivors. I have the tiger. Well, good choice alone. You're the best was later used in the karate The Karate Kid. And coincidentally, survivor also performed the theme song for the Karate Kid, which is
Sal Rodriguez:the moment of truth. Wow. Which we
Jason Connell:did a deep dive on that music, video and archive. So these movies, it's unbelievable. It's like they were office like right next door to each other. The rock? Yeah, the Karate Kid franchise and they just shared stuff.
Sal Rodriguez:And imagine being a, it was Bill Conti? I believe right? You said he had to choose between doing either the rocky or the talk about a quality problem.
Jason Connell:Yeah, these are good problems to have. I do I do the this installment of rocky or Hamilton really wants me for part two. The Karate Kid. I got that whole Okinawa thing I'm working on. Yeah, I want to see footage of behind the scenes and scoring these movies. Like there's more deep dives to come. But so that kind of covers why we're even doing a deep dive. Yes. That's the lineage. Let's talk Cobra Kai. So quickly. Again, we talked about this last time but bang out some of the caster Sylvester Stallone, of course. Rocky Balboa. Dolph Lundgren, Ivan Drago Talia Shire. Adrian, also sister to
Sal Rodriguez:Francis Ford. Coppola. I just learned that recently. You know,
Jason Connell:Bert young Polly Carl Weathers Apollo Creed Brigitte Nielsen Ludmilla Liudmyla James Brown Godfather of Soul, I did not mention these next three people and I want to do it here because I really enjoyed the performances and kind of we were just doing a broad strokes last week. Yeah, Tony Burton is Duke. Oh, yeah, good as the trainer ring man. He was always in the Rocky movies because he was Apollo Creed's trainer, and ring man. And then he made the switch. And I always loved him. And did you know in real life,
Sal Rodriguez:he was an actual pro boxer. Wow,
Jason Connell:well legit came up with get some credits on there. Sorry. Okay. I didn't know that. And then Michael Pataki. He played Nikolai. So good if you almost just ignore it, because it's so good. Like, this guy is such the Russian bad guy. Yeah, he should be in a Bond movie. He's just fantastic. A little tidbit tip of the cap. Stu. Nihon
Sal Rodriguez:student and he's no he's known in Los Angeles. Is he known nationally?
Jason Connell:No. So reason I'm bringing him up, because he's a fight commentator in a lot of the Rocky movies turns out rest in peace stew. But he's also in Fast Times at Ridgemont High. He's got this great scene with Spicoli on the flashback like he's dreaming that a flashback. He's dreaming. And he's like, Where'd you get that jacket? And it's Stu Nan. And when we did Fast Times at Ridgemont High and let's talk movies. My guest host Michael Australia. He knew Stu because he grew up in LA he's like, Oh, no, that guy's a local guide. He was like he's fantastic in this.
Sal Rodriguez:Okay. Yeah. Because I know him locally. These movies made them Oh, yeah.
Jason Connell:visible for sure. So I highly recommend that episode on Let's Talk movies. But now jumping in. I know you saw the wait,
Sal Rodriguez:wait, wait. Hello, Jason. Wasn't Mr. T in there for just a little bit. Okay.
Jason Connell:Fair enough. God, give him his credit. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. pity the
Sal Rodriguez:fool. Forget I was in the movie. He's in there. Just a little bit. I just wanted to give a shout out
Jason Connell:to Mr. Lang. Of course, I love Mr. T. Of course. So I know you saw the movie too. You rendered it. We both watched it. I've kind of went back and forth. So my initial takeaways were just rocky versus Drago some notes and things that I saw different because when I watched both versions, and I'll jump in here, and we can in a stop and jump in any note that I have, okay, because I know you didn't go back and see the other one. But no, you know, one difference right out of the gate before I even watched the original was, it starts with the seven minute montage which replaces the usual rocky standard, which is typically giving the audience a quick recap of the final fight in the previous film, right. You know, you just see like, oh, you're a little bit of Clubber Lang, and okay. And then you rant but this was more than that. This was like kind of a short film of rocky three. It's really what it was. And I was like, that was really cool. I did a print you do see Clubber Lang, you know, now you see him. And it's well done. And you really see just how close Rocky and Apollo are. If you had any, any thoughts or notions like well, they used to be enemies. No, They've really grown together after rocky three, and especially when Mickey died because he was there for him. When Mickey died, he was distraught. You're on top. It's like Tyson when he no longer had his original trainer Tyson wasn't the same iron Mike Tyson. Right? Yeah, he was on top of the world and sometimes that one thing just rocks. Well, then Tyson went to prison. And so Rocky was going down Clubber Lang beat some Apollo's there, him and Duke and they bring him back. And that was night. I guess he wanted to hammer that point home because it was not in the original cut that montage is
Sal Rodriguez:okay. Okay, but wait a second. Did you remember that? Prior to watching the original felt
Jason Connell:different? I was like, Oh, I don't I don't remember ever seen be this long. In the beginning. It's usually just like, hey, here we are at this fight and it's winding down and then you kind of go on to the next one. When I saw the credit card, part two for the first time in a long time, they give you a recap of the credit kit. And I forgotten that and again, yeah, Appleton that connection the tie in. Now many movies start the sequel with the flash Godfather Part Two does not start with all these scenes from Godfather one and they tie it all up together. We just kind of were in it. It's a tiniest thing.
Sal Rodriguez:I like that. I like it. Like for example. Let's say there's a gap between seasons on the show. Yeah, how let's say Cobra Kai, let's say Cobra Kai, there's a gap between seasons. So guess what I'm gonna do I need to I want to recap real quick. I want to know exactly where we are in space and time. Now let's start the new season. So I like those recaps.
Jason Connell:I think they're great, but not many franchises do it and these to do now I did notice the end of the Montage. No longer has a really cool scene I loved so and it's when Rocky and creed go to spar in the empty gym. Yeah. And they're kind of bantering back and forth. You know Age before beauty lets him in the ring and they And Rocky three with a both going for a punch and rocky with his left and Cree with the right and we freeze there. Well, that's no longer in the beginning of rocky four. It's still in Rocky three. But it's not part of this montage going into this movie.
Sal Rodriguez:It's my understanding that wasn't actually sparring. They were actually supposed to fight right?
Jason Connell:I said sparring. But yeah, they're gonna have a fight. Well, yeah, fans know anybody. Yeah, who's on top? Yeah. But I always love that scene. And they didn't even see them punch. Yeah. You do see him? He comes home and agents like, oh, you what happened? And because he took a hit, right? If I'd be much worse, because the rocky fights usually he's a mess. Sure. But yeah, so we do know what happened. But we don't see that same. So also, I noticed right out of the gate, you don't see the animated gloves. The USA, Russia and Medic gloves come down and then they go and they explode. Yeah, that's not in the new version. No, it's gone. No. Do you remember that one? Oh, yeah.
Sal Rodriguez:Oh, that was memorable. There are a few things that were absolutely memorable. Remember, I last saw this movie? Geez, just a year or two after it was released theatrically at a friend's house? I'm a teenager, adolescent, I think yeah, but a few things stood out. So even not having seen the movie all these years. And now I watched the director's cut. And I go, Oh, wait a second. And totally remember. Yeah, absolutely.
Jason Connell:Well, that was such a sign of the times too. And I mean, 80s and I do believe hearing Slocombe sly talk earlier that evening. I think he was trying to tone down so that you know
Sal Rodriguez:we have that whole USA Russia sentiment, it's no longer so
Jason Connell:that mean, it's different. There is more than there was in the last 20 years now. But I think it's the technology. I think he was probably like that's cheesy. So now it just has rocky for Rocky verse draug A real classy text, but I could see that he's toning down the technology when you watch a movie and they have cell phones 20 year old cell phones it's like oh my god you know I love that about some of his it kind of take it back to the 90s and don't show us a bunch of technology because I don't want it to become dated. I get it I you know, watch the net if you want to laugh, right? But the net at the time was the standard as far as the technology and cyber and all that stuff. So Okay, moving on. The opening is also different in a way because the same was always there Apollo in the pool, throwing tennis balls with his dogs overseas, the news learned about this Russian boxing invasion. You could tell like he's starting to think things are starting to click and this new version it's you see it like they kind of did a lot of it back to him thinking the on the ball like man that's how I get back on top and the original version. It's toned down a bit, right because he gets out of the pool and now we're at we see a great scene between him and a brand new scene him and rocky at Rocky's mansion. And they're talking about you're learning how important it is for crit to fight Drago not just run over there like in the original cut like hey, I want to do this champ. I want to do this champion then you can fight them champ come on stallion. It's deeper. And since Rocky was there for him, and that montage, you really got to see it like, Okay, I kind of owe this to Apollo. Because really Drago wants to fight Rocky. Yeah, they don't even care about creed. He kind of put himself in there like, hey, no, this would be a warm up. And we'll do this and we'll get everyone you know, get excited. And then you can fight Stallone, or Stallone, Rocky Balboa. And Stallone fight him too. So that's what's going on there. And even in the press comments in both versions, the guy's like, he's a husband. He's too old. We shouldn't be doing this. And so I get it. But that's kind of you know, Rocky is like, Hey, I owe this to you. Go do it. But it's neat to see some new saints for sure. They're,
Sal Rodriguez:I forgot to Google their ages. Because when Adrian was talking about, you know, you guys a little old for this or saying something to that effect. I always want to Google that. How old are these people right now?
Jason Connell:I think Stallone's in his 70s. Okay, so
Sal Rodriguez:we're going back with 35 years then. So he would have been mid mid 30s. Late 30s.
Jason Connell:Yeah. And then you got to figure it out. But he's in the character supposed to be a little bit younger than a creep, you know, a little bit means 710 years. I'm not sure. Actually. I just looked it up Stallone 75 Looks amazing.
Sal Rodriguez:Yeah, he does. He looks really great. Okay, so if you follow fights, I know for sure in MMA and I think we've learned with people like George Foreman, you know, you can be a little long in the tooth and still fight you know, you might not have the speed they say speeds the first to go, but you can still fight Tyson looks good. Randy Couture, came back and won the UFC I think it was heavyweight, light heavyweight title. I think I'd like 47 or 48. So that crazy so you can still fight probably well into your late 40s, early 50s Probably
Jason Connell:by the way it weathers so I'm only three, two years younger, but he's playing older. So, okay. Here's the big old mission and the new cut 80s robot. Yeah, they got Paulie for his birthday gone. Now I know it's easy to do. And again, tech technology, looking dated What the hell all barley. How are you? However Polly's comment gold and Rocky movies and there's some good scenes between him and the robot. He talks about how he fell in love with the robot. Yeah. And there's even a scene where rocky takes a call from Apollo by using the robots built in phone capabilities, which is hysterical. So once he made the decision and I get it, you go look at something decades later, probably, like ad just looks dated with these things. You know, I get it and it's gone. No robot. So then you lose anything around said robot.
Sal Rodriguez:Yeah, you know what? I don't necessarily agree that you have to do that. This movie is tied to a moment in time in history. It's an era. Yeah. And I think that's okay. I think that's fine. I think that overall Stallone didn't want he didn't want that he didn't want it to be tied. Because when you watch this new Director's Cut, it's not really tied to any time. I mean, yeah, you have the whole Russian challenge, but it's not really Yeah, the robot would definitely have dated and by the way, I didn't hate the robot because to me, the robot itself symbolizes something didn't the robot symbolizes decadence and consumerism and you know, here he is Rocky has arrived he can sit back and be lazy now Right? He's a he's he's successful. He's and all that. And the robots symbolize that. Yeah.
Jason Connell:Well, he did some of that rocky three. Yeah, made money. Got a little too high on the horse. Mr. T Clubber Lang beats him. He's not that now. He's kind of just deciding. Probably like Mayweather, what do I do now? I have riches. I have fortune. I have my health still. But I'm a good boxer, my boxer and he'll come back out and Floyd goes and makes 40 million and never loses. So Rocky is probably like struggling with that. And you're right. It's decadence. I even like those little scenes over he goes in the kitchen and talk to Adrian and they bring in the robot and so all that's gone because yeah, this movie, it seems more streamline. Like, okay, Apollo wants to fight Okay, he's gonna be fighting and was the through line. We don't have any access on this new cut. And that's fine.
Sal Rodriguez:You and I talk about that a lot too. When it comes to audio and video. trimming the fat and this movie, this director's cut. It's trim. No fat is no fat at all. But you know what? Hang on, though. I like a little bit. Oh, no, no,
Jason Connell:that's why the little bit of fat original will still be top dog from me. But I love its cousin. So another big section gone are various scenes and this is the biggest thing and a good talking point for us. Is with his son Rocky Jr.
Sal Rodriguez:Oh, yeah. He just has the that little mentoring seat little
Jason Connell:bit. We don't see him videotaping his father. Again, technology, any archaic 80s device. He comes home that time and he's filming him and I was a little kid when I was a teenager but I had a camera back then. And I liked that sequence. It was like Oh, cool. He's got the toy he's had he has the life that rocky never had. He's got the toys but he's grounded. You know? He's got good parents. And I liked it. So that's gone. And then you also lose and this one hurts me more so Oh, great shots of his son watching the fight between Drago and rocky on TV with his friends. Oh, robots behind them? Yes, yes. Yes. And then rocky after he wins and he's victorious saying to his son Rocky Jr. That He loves them. And then you see Rocky Jr. Kind of to say like we just bounce it like I love you dad. This little it's a little moment. It's just tiny moment. I didn't see it. And I went saw the original cut. And I was like, there's that scene. Always loved it. It's just touching.
Sal Rodriguez:Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. And I get the feeling and now when all is said and done, it seems like this movie was more about this version rather was more about Rocky and Apollo. Yeah. Then Rocky and Apollo and Adrian. And yeah, and in the family. It wasn't so much about that. Hearts on fire was that about him and Apollo it's almost like a man bro love story in a way.
Jason Connell:Well, he chose to back his friend his friend was there for him. And then he did nothing to save his life. So his what he has to do is go in life.
Sal Rodriguez:No, you know what, in that scene where he put Rocky in a very awkward knowing he plays he just you know what I don't like when people do that. I don't like to watch your friend in an awkward position. Yeah, stop
Jason Connell:this, but no, I'm not. Yeah, Rocky's fine. I'm saying that he I should have made this clear. He feels that.
Sal Rodriguez:Yeah, he was he carries that burden with him. But he
Jason Connell:also backed away and let him do it. And then it didn't stop him more. He probably could he could have stopped him along the way. Although Apollo's a hard guy to stop. He's stubborn. He's stubborn. He's gonna come. So also on the point of Rocky Jr, though, so I gotta say he has played by. She's story.
Sal Rodriguez:I promise. Rocky Krakoff. Yes,
Jason Connell:it's true. It's played by a rocking
Sal Rodriguez:me listen to the last name so it sounds Russian so very interesting.
Jason Connell:So perhaps that's how I got cast. I don't know. But well here's what I do know Sylvester Stallone's real life son sage, Stallone did play Rocky Jr. and rocky five. Yes. And he did great. He's a little bit older. He's more of a teen, Rocky, Jr. and then sadly, in real life, he passed away in 2012 natural causes at the very young age of 36. Tragic Yeah, it was tragic. very tragic. Yes. And so I just wonder set by the way, was that his only son? No, no, it was not. Oh, he has. I think it was as old as early as God he has gorgeous daughters and yeah, so I wonder if that played any role in diminishing rocky juniors role? And Rocky for I mean, this is hindsight. I'm just speculating here. Yeah. And I wonder if maybe Stallone wanted sage for this movie rocky for it. Thanks. Maybe this didn't work out. I do know that actor in fried about pronouncing that right. Fri Ed played Rocky Jr. and rocky three. He was a younger child at that point in time. Yeah. And then another one of semesters real life sons say Joe s EARGEOH. Stallone played Rocky Jr. and rocky two as a baby. Oh, wow. So very excited. I was like, Wait a second. So it's always kind of been around the family there. I'm hopefully I'm pronouncing his name right. And he didn't make a comeback. But sage did. So I just wonder if he can if he's looking back at the lineage of Rocky Jr. and the most green time or I don't even know I guess rocky five has left the screen time to Sage. But did that have anything to do it? Like you know what I'm streamlining this the stories about Apollo and rocky and revenge and redemption. I don't need this story with him as much. You know, people change. 2030 years go by and things are different. So I'm just speculating. But those are the facts. Those people all played Rocky Jr. and I do not recall Rocky Jr. from Rocky Balboa. I guess I should have looked that up. I stopped there. Because we were doing a deep dive on this movie. Yeah. So any thoughts?
Sal Rodriguez:No, no, no, I did a long pause. When I learned about sage Stallone's death. I mean, I might have heard about it when it happened. But it left my mind. But now that this is in our in our mind. Now. I did a pause on that. Because there's a I saw the documentary about the making of Yes, you did. And the documentary I forgot the name of it, forgive me. But it's about how Stallone edited this new ultimate Director's Cut. It follows him in the editing room. And it's just him talking to the interviewer behind the camera. And you get into Stallone's thought process about his relationship with the film things he did, why he did it, then why he's doing it now and all that. And then you know, you learn about his son. And the whole time, I'm just thinking how sad this is. Because I would love first semester law to be my dad. I know, I would love a deadly strategy. So I thought how tragic it is. You lose your son, he loses his father. I mean, you know, for the person that dies, loses also not just the survivors, the survivors don't just lose the person who dies, loses. So yeah, very, very sad. Very sad. Those types
Jason Connell:of things could come into play. He dies in 2012. You're going back and touching this movie in 2020 2021. And you look at it very differently. You put importance on different aspects. It's like you know what that relationship whatever it didn't make or break but I want to tell this story. I get it whatever it is. It's his choice. His right. I'm just playing out what I saw on what I think.
Sal Rodriguez:Do you think Jason when it comes to the viewer following the hero's journey, and by the way, in the documentary, Sylvester Stallone mentions Joseph Campbell, who talks a lot about the hero's journey in any mythology, whether ancient mythologies or film, in the hero's journey, we can only focus on maybe one or two primary relationships, we can't focus on too many relationships, maybe so if he he has a great relationship with Apollo, he has a great relationship with Polly whoever every single person besides maybe creed isn't as important maybe? Yeah. Could be maybe maybe some sort of device.
Jason Connell:Yeah. And maybe that's why he put more of creed in this version, because he's got the, you know, more scenes that were never there. He has this montage that wasn't there. And you got to cut somewhere. I mean, I guess, well, he could have just piled on. And my initial thought was like, Oh, this will be a heavier Rocky, no pun intended. But like just more meat on the bones. It's an hour 50 runtime two hours? Yeah, I almost kind of want to see if that version, like leave some of this and puts on the new stuff. And maybe though it feels too bogged down in right, you know, because there's something to be said for that. If it's not meant to be that, then maybe it just feels off. But anyway, those are the major things. These are the minor things. I did notice that Bridget Nielsen's character her scenes, her lines were definitely cut down. Yeah, she had a lot more to say. And the original. Now I know he dated her. No, I don't I'm not I'm not. I'm not adding to that. Maybe like that into it. I just think that she said enough. The Russian presence was strong. And if you cut some or hers down, you're not losing anything.
Sal Rodriguez:Hang on, hang on. I forgot that data Brigitte Nielsen. Yeah, that happened. Okay. So yeah, we hope that there's no hard feelings there a broken heartedness that could relate to you ending up on the cutting room floor. But yeah, Brigitte Nielsen is featured less, in fact, featured so little, almost wondering if they could have just almost cut her out entirely like the robot made.
Jason Connell:Yeah. When I went back and watch the original, I was like, oh, yeah, she's talking here. She has something to say here. She's over here. And she had a presence, you know, and she had a look. And I remember seeing it going, Oh, my gosh, who are these is like superpower. They have a kid. Look. They did have a kid and we'll get into that. Oh, so for crit talk some other time. Yes, yes. So I noticed that okay. And then there's a pre fight chat with Rocky and Apollo. It's gone. I liked it enough before Apollo goes on and fights obviously, you know, pre fi a little chat in the locker room. Didn't see it gone. And while training in Russia, rocky helped a man with his horse and buggy when they got stuck in the snow. I was even telling Sophia is like, oh, here comes the scene where? Oh, that's not part of the Montage. Now. It's very minor, but I was a kid. And it kind of helps him get it, you know, back on his way. Yeah, he doesn't do that. Now.
Sal Rodriguez:You're saying in the Director's Cut. He
Jason Connell:doesn't do that. No, really show the guy and his horse and buggy, but he's not in need. He's still going pretty strong. So that doesn't happen. These are minor. I don't know. I'm not going like I'm missing some things on purpose. But these are just minor little
Sal Rodriguez:details. When we get to the big fight. There's something that I was waiting for. And it was not
Jason Connell:almost there. So then you can take over. So they did add in the fact that the Russians did not honor Rocky's request for sparring partners, no sparring partners, but they delivered everything else in the remote location, the old school equipment and all that. So in the original, they don't talk about it, but they were shortchanged. Like, where's the sparring partners? I've delivered everything. I did not know about that. So they kind of like undercut him a little bit. You'll be fine. You're gonna fight just fine. Already. Good luck to you.
Sal Rodriguez:It just brings to mind I mean, I'm no fight expert. But I would think you should bring your own sparring partners to a foreign country. Right? That's,
Jason Connell:that's a good point. But they didn't. And that was an exchange that was never around. I never saw it until now. So minor, but I thought it was interesting. Yeah. Okay, so I just have really just the fight. And then I have comments for both versions. So tell me please, what was your glaring omission?
Sal Rodriguez:Well, you know, because we mentioned Polly Polly is such a, I guess he is the official comic relief of the franchise. Where rocky comes back. I think it's after the first round after having been knocked around by Drago sits down. He says, I see three of them. Yeah. And then Polly goes hit the one in the middle. And then duke says, Yeah, hit the one in the middle. He reiterates what Polly said, God, because I remember that like that
Jason Connell:original, because I saw it. Yeah, I was like, there it is not
Sal Rodriguez:in the new version at all. And that's that little bit of the comic relief limit of comic relief. I mean, he let Polly be poly, but he didn't hammer it. Yeah, exactly.
Jason Connell:Exactly. I also noticed that the count out for Drago was different. The drama around that sequence is a bit different. And it's interesting how the original film had the Russian leader. You know, the Gorbachev type? Yes. And the original. He stands he applauds rocky at the end. Yeah, he's honoring him in this new version. He ducks out early, and he has nothing but contempt for Nikolai Koloff. So he's like, You let me down and he's out but in the original. He's like, way to go Rocky, you know, hey, we can all we can all change and grow from this so well. It's interesting.
Sal Rodriguez:It's an interesting choice by Sylvester Stallone, considering it seems overall he tried to downplay the nationalism, tried to downplay the Cold War itself, right. Kind of downplay it, and yet an interesting choice. You think he would have left the applause? Which is sort of an olive branch. Yeah. But no, yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't about facing walks out.
Jason Connell:He's gone. So that's what happened there. I now have comments just kind of overall on both versions, no longer ping pong, back and forth. Yes. So because again, it was just fun to get back in it. And the only thing I missed out on was the fact that I didn't get to see it in the big screen again. Oh, yeah. And this version for the first time. So that aside, I still enjoyed it at home with great sound and great picture, but just not as big as the theater. So questions How would it not have been nice to see footage of any of Ivan Drago owes previous fights?
Sal Rodriguez:I thought of that too. We don't see anyone he has fought
Jason Connell:not nothing. He's beat everybody gold and gloves. Oh, he's with us. He was a gold medalist, gold medalist. So in this day and age, we want to see tape, like when he got on that guy, but he let me see that guy. And that would have been some cool footage. However, maybe they would have seen too much and been like forget those guys guys knocking people out of rings. You know, who knows how bad it was? I thought that was interesting. If you're gonna go back and make that movie now too bad. They didn't do this cut. Too bad. That wasn't part of the new footage sprinkled in there, because that would have been cool. So that was one thing. Another big question. No scenes of Apollo Creed training to fight Drago.
Sal Rodriguez:Yes, yes, yes. It's just that's what I mean. When I saw this movie, this new Director's Cut? No fat at all. I mean, by the time it's over, you can take a breath. Yeah. Really. It was just boom, boom, boom, one thing to the next one thing to the next. Before you know it. Yeah, they did not have any training sequence before you know it. He's living in America.
Jason Connell:But they never even shot itself. If they did, I think that would have been something because I wonder did he just want it really bad because obviously he was overmatch where rocky could take the punch. Now they're very different mindsets, Rocky's gonna put himself in front of you and say, you know, I'm not going anywhere. You have to surrender yourself to beat me. You have to be willing to die to beat me. Apollo wanted it maybe for the wrong reasons.
Sal Rodriguez:Jason this was officially an exhibition match. Yes,
Jason Connell:it was but neither one of them wouldn't really admit that.
Sal Rodriguez:Okay, so that was so that's my point, though. Is that did Apollo just consider it an exhibition match whereas Drago considered it a normal job match
Jason Connell:Apollo want to do when it was his get back in the public consciousness to be a star again if he wins that maybe he's got another shot? Maybe not at Rocky but someone else because other guy there's other up and comer who wants to fight Rocky? No, I don't think it was just an exhibition for him. He wanted to win to show the Russians but he also just wanted to get back on top he was led by egos.
Sal Rodriguez:Okay, so that neither fighter treated it knows the next day. The other one wanted
Jason Connell:to demolish him to get to the champ.
Sal Rodriguez:Yeah, okay. All right. So they both took it seriously them.
Jason Connell:I mean, what was Rocky's he gave up the title to fight that was also an exhibition fight. He had to surrender the title
Sal Rodriguez:to go to Russia to fight. Yeah. Well, because he couldn't get sanctioned. I think that some sort of athletic commission, it seemed, wouldn't sanction them to fight in the states here.
Jason Connell:But that doesn't matter. It's really about what was at stake. And was creed really like in the original Rocky, this guy's got a shot at the title. And Apollo Creed's a psych party and hanging out not worried about this guy. There's nobody from Philly, who's hitting, you know, slabs of meat, you know, in the frozen truck or whatever. But Duke was watching him intently going, Apollo, this guy he's got he's got that. Look, he's hungry. Right? And Apollo wasn't and he barely won against a shouldn't have been right. And then in the second one, he loses. Then he helps rocky train, but I'm just saying was Apollo really giving it his all? Or was his ego just saying I can do this. I got this Trump. I'm a boxer. Because I don't know. It's a question. I'd love to if I could talk to Stallone, I'd ask him that was creed really ready for this fight?
Sal Rodriguez:Well, that goes back to what I was thinking was Did he take it seriously? Or did he consider it an exhibition? I think he
Jason Connell:considered it serious. But I don't know if he trained that he looked ripped. Everyone in this movie is odd. Let me just point that out, right. Oh, yeah. And he's dancing. But that's like when you're showboating before a fight. It tells you what your focus is. Yeah. You're not gonna see great teams don't come in dance in the Super Bowl. Save that for afterwards. That takes energy. It takes focus. Sure. Those are some great scenes, by the way, in both versions. I love the way they bring Drago up. Oh, yeah. Yeah, His looks are just fantastic. Like, yeah, like What the hell's going on? And he's just the perfect. That's something we're brushing over here because we're not doing a play by play. Yeah, the scene by scene breakdown of this movie. We're just doing a kind of a retrospective of these two versions. But great casting. I mean, don't Longo is incredible. He does believe it completely. Like this guy is a Russian. He could also be German, or Austrian. But he's like a specimen. Right. Perfect.
Sal Rodriguez:And not the original choice. Stallone says that the original choice for Drago, as far as what type? Sort of more cro-magnon Neanderthal sort of a throwback look. And then it occurred to him. I think, speaking with some of his contemporaries that No, no, Ivan Drago should not be of the past. He should be of the future. Yes, he's the future of boxing. So then right around the time they meet Dolph Lundgren and have an aha moment. Yeah. And then here we are. Yeah,
Jason Connell:it's He's incredible. When he says nothing. It's quiet power. are full, but I've never seen a he's coming up Apollo's coming down. Got James Brown there. He's with James Brown. But anyway, we could talk about it forever, but I just I think he was into it. I think he believed he was going to win just on his presence alone. He was a boxer. And this guy's he doesn't know what he's doing. I will outbox him. But did he out train him? I doubt it. I highly doubt it.
Sal Rodriguez:That brings to mind then the way that Drago trained to fight rocky those historic montages at this point. And by the way, I'll tell you this when I was a kid when I saw that montage with Drago, and then you see the montage in Siberia or Russia rather with Rocky, I wanted to train Drago style. I love all that high tech stuff. Totally. I love that high tech equipment. Love it. Oh, okay. I just said that one machine where you do internal rotation. What? I want a machine where I can do internal external rotation of my rotator cuff. I want that
Jason Connell:he's a $6 million dollar man. Although now it'd be like $6 billion, man but incredible. So all right, my notes on both versions, but no scenes of Apollo Creed with his family. Other than his wife at the fight, and then her again with the two kids
Unknown:at the funeral. Yes, yes. A young creed. Yes, I'm
Jason Connell:Yeah, well, his son, right? Yes, yes. And his daughter, but yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing something. You know, another scene baby. The bow bow was in the Creed's just talking about this fight coming up, but they must not have had that kind of footage. They just don't have that same. also kind of a nice tidbit. Which I picked up on this time around. But rocky says Apollo, you're the best. Yeah, I caught that. Homage to the Karate Kid. And
Sal Rodriguez:what Joe Esposito jobina Esposito yeah I did catch that. Like they really
Jason Connell:said that I love and then small thing but when Rockies Ryan up the mountain top, you know, which is a great scene kind of ending some of his training, which I still have that down here. But I wonder if him at that mountain top which is pretty high up? I mean, helicopter shot. It really reminded me of our prelude to
Sal Rodriguez:cliffhanger slice cliffhanger movie. Yeah, it Yeah, it is
Jason Connell:visually that like, you know, I've done this. And then years later, he would tackle a
Sal Rodriguez:cliffhanger. Yeah, that is a great shot and he yells out dry Gago and both versions so yeah, okay,
Jason Connell:I checked that. A lot of checking last spot checking on things like that. And so I had forgotten. Ivan Drago, his nickname, do you remember it?
Sal Rodriguez:And no, but when they said it, I acknowledge it. The Siberian Express Bull.
Jason Connell:I thought was the Siberian Express. I'm pretty sure they said Siberian bull. But what the cello?
Sal Rodriguez:Well, double check. Hey, listeners, send us an email. We should check that, you know, see this is like the Mandela Effect.
Jason Connell:Remember it? So how did you
Sal Rodriguez:how did you I wanted to mention that when James Brown comes out and sings living in America. In my head. I thought he had a similar red white and blue outfit. As Apollo. No, he doesn't have a Uncle Sam.
Jason Connell:No, you're right. You're right. I know he has the colors. But it's really, you know, palos outfit. Which rocky then? Yeah,
Sal Rodriguez:yes, yes, yes. Yes. All these years. I picked your James Brown in a similar outfit. So there's the Mandela Effect, in effect.
Jason Connell:That's funny. Well, they do say the Siberian bull in the movie. There could be another reference to express maybe that's in the original. I looked at up really quickly while you were talking race. It was bull. But then someone has referenced a variant Express. So what there? Yeah, I don't know. So what is it? Well, a bull said in the movie because I wrote it down.
Sal Rodriguez:So what did I get Express
Jason Connell:from them? You created that whole thing? That's great. And speaking of Drago, what are these shots he's getting from his team of scientists. Yeah.
Sal Rodriguez:bypass that. Yeah, he's
Jason Connell:so big and strong.
Sal Rodriguez:And he doesn't even wince. They're going right into his muscle. They're they're not going they're not trying to find like little pieces of fat, no, boom, right into his muscle right in there.
Jason Connell:So now this again, I got ahead of myself, I put the mountain one a little sooner I should have held I do these sequentially. It got moved up. But Adrian comes to Russia, both versions in the midst of Rockies training. And so I've always heard that boxers should abstain from sex before a fight. Oh, that's
Sal Rodriguez:an old urban legend. Yes,
Jason Connell:in the original Rocky, even Mickey said, You lay off that petshop dame, women weaken legs. So he said that about Adrienne. Now maybe they had separate sleeping quarters or what have you and they've been down this dance before. I'm glad she made it because she wasn't approving of this situation, but had to throw that
Sal Rodriguez:in my 20s. I used to run half marathons and marathons. And before the event, I would say leading up probably the week of the event. Because of the urban legend. I would abstain from sexual relations for about a week leading up to the half marathon or marathon. Now did it do anything that would benefit me that it helped me to keep? Did it retain my chi? I don't know. But I did subscribe to that.
Jason Connell:So Rodriguez, he will not sleep with a woman unless she says, Yeah, I'll sleep with you. Well done so. Alright, so moving on. I absolutely love the training montage sound. You talked about it earlier. I was waiting to get here because it is the standard. It's the gold standard. The Drago camp, rocky camp, it couldn't get any better. Just so shot the drag of going around that gym hitting that punching bag, some of the wide shot and just his silhouette. And everyone's just scientists doing nothing but looking cool.
Sal Rodriguez:Yeah, they got the lab coats in the clipboards
Jason Connell:and they said earlier in the movie, like he punches 1850 and all sudden he's after a one shot. He's at 19 2000 and then Rocky is doing some impressive stuff. You know, like sit ups from his legs hanging up in the rafters? That's the
Sal Rodriguez:most famous Are you
Jason Connell:kidding me?
Sal Rodriguez:The vertical hanging vertical?
Jason Connell:believable?
Unknown:Can you do that? Yeah, sure. You can.
Jason Connell:I can do can you hang vertical and do a couple of those? Yes.
Sal Rodriguez:Okay. How about this pull ups to the front then pull ups to the behind the head.
Jason Connell:I can't Did you see that? I can't do that many pull ups. He's killing me on the pull ups. And then he picks them up in the horse thing.
Sal Rodriguez:Oh, no maj to Steve Reeves. He said as a young kid watching Steve Reeves as Hercules pulling down the columns. Okay. He said that scene where he's lifting up the wagon. Amazing. He said an homage to Steve Reeves.
Jason Connell:That thing he's got on his shoulders and even just walking out in the snow that Polly couldn't even make it two feet and he's gone. Oh yeah. tree branch and
Sal Rodriguez:what have we ever seen him with a beard before? Right?
Jason Connell:Why he's out in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, we
Sal Rodriguez:get some rocky with a beard was kind of cool. And then he shaved it to fight though.
Jason Connell:He did. Well not. Cobra Kai had a great homage to this when Samantha and Tori were training remember that? And they were going back and forth. It was definitely tip of the cap for Rocky for
Unknown:think so. Oh, yeah. Okay, absolutely.
Sal Rodriguez:Nice. I'll tell you what. I'm a big fan of montages. Now I I never knew I never consolidated the thought in my head. But getting involved in the Karate Kid Cobra universes now. Rocky. I'm a big fan of the Montage. You know, because you can say so much in such a small amount of time.
Jason Connell:Yeah, with one song on.
Sal Rodriguez:It's great. Yeah, there you go.
Jason Connell:We got to fix this boat. But on Psalm 80s. It was great. So many movies copied it, but this really is the standard. Now I also don't recall the death of Apollo Creed being renamed Death from above. I don't remember that. Do you remember that?
Sal Rodriguez:No. I thought they were referring to they called Apollo Creed's death Death from above because implying or referring to Drago, like his fist coming downward is Death from above? I don't know. That's what I thought that was referring to.
Jason Connell:I don't even think that phrase stuck around very long. I think it's just Apollo Creed's death. I don't think Death from above. It was a weird moment in the movies like, Okay, I don't remember that from either version. But okay, so it's interesting how Drago turned on his country and made it about him. I kind of forgot that I know, he got mad at the main guy and picked him up. And that was pretty amazing. No matter of Frankenstein and his throws him. But it's what causes the crowd to switch support for Rocky. I mean, who showed no fear, no quit against all odds. So it was funny how that shift happened to me like, oh, yeah, Drago made it about himself. The Russian fans pivoted to Rocky who was overcoming the odds. It's David and Goliath. I mean, he's not supposed to be in this fight. And here he is in this fight. And I love saw the great unification speech at the end. Maybe rocky can make the USA and Russia come together again.
Sal Rodriguez:You know, this brings up a very interesting point. And that is that has this movie ever been screened in Russia? I'm sure that what does the Russian contingencies have to say about this movie? What would what would their take on it be? And which version would they like? Yeah, more.
Jason Connell:There's an FR version. It's a Russian version. Do
Sal Rodriguez:they want to see Gorbachev staying and applauding or getting up and walking the hell out? Yeah,
Jason Connell:I don't know which version they would like more, but they're well represented.
Sal Rodriguez:I'm no history expert. But the Cold War was a huge thing. Yeah, there was a time where the US and Russia had missiles pointed at each other. Yes, yeah. This happened. So I think, yes, the load is kind of downplaying the era itself that spawned the movie. That era spawned this movie, he made the movie. There it is, but now I wanted to go back and kind of downplay the whole thing.
Jason Connell:I don't know if he downplayed it. He just wanted to make a more linear storyline and about them. The relationships I don't think he downplayed the cold war isn't the sentiment that I got. I think you want to take out some of the other characters and just build up him in a pile Oh, and the through line and why it was so important to each of them. That's what I thought. I think I think well kept the Cold War. Well, the gloves. I think it's just technology.
Sal Rodriguez:Okay. I was I thought when you took those gloves away, I thought you were kind of, you know, it's almost a peace offering to take those gloves away from striking each other.
Jason Connell:No, I didn't see it that way. I think that he believes that there's turmoil now between both countries. And this is a very timely movie. And maybe he just wanted to go dusted off and streamline it and not avoid it. I don't think it avoids it. I think it's just those other things. We talked about relationship, taking away the technology aspect of it. So it's more of a timeless movie,
Sal Rodriguez:I thought there was a line or two certain lines with that had a lot of meat on them where Apollo would say it's us versus them. I mean, a line like it's us versus them. Yeah, that's a huge thing to say. And then to take a line like that away is then itself making a statement.
Jason Connell:But he has a lot of that in there. He put different lines in there when he's going to meet with Rocky at the house. He's got the football and the mansion that all of that is about us versus them. They're gonna come over here champ. And so it's I think it's still there. It's just laid out a little differently.
Sal Rodriguez:Okay, so you don't think that that's still an overall tried to downplay the whole Cold War issue? No, I
Jason Connell:don't think he did. I think he was just trying to it's us versus them in a way, but it's, it's also what's going on with them. So. And really, I think it's a technology omission.
Sal Rodriguez:Okay, well, I'm what I'm definitely going to do is watch the original theatrical do that. Do that. I'm going to watch it because again, I'm still thinking back what, 35 years? Yeah, it
Jason Connell:was hard to remember all that. Yeah,
Sal Rodriguez:I need to get caught up.
Jason Connell:So Well, that's it, we covered it. So the preview was the preview. The review was the review. In the end, I really enjoy the new version. I really did. But it kind of reignited my fire and love for Rocky for both versions. The original cut, rocky verse, Drago, I can't say one's better. They're different. Always hold the original in the highest regard. But this new one's great. And I'll probably rewatch it. I own it now. And I'm anxious to see if he tackles all the ones. And again, we talked about this on the preview version. Are other movies going to do this? Is there a director's cut with John J Watson's past but is there footage we haven't seen that's, you know, been treated, color corrected. And of the Karate Kid that we could see a version that has footage we've never seen before not just giving us a scene that sent on its own. But will that ever happen? Because the outsiders did this too. Not that long ago. Coppola went in. And there's a new version, longer scenes, because it was a lot of cuts. It was a lot of extra footage in that movie filmed in my hometown of Tulsa, Oklahoma. I'm anxious to see if more movies from the 80s 90s or older are doing this now. Because content, you know, is what it is. I mean, this is a really cool thing that Stallone has kicked off and I commend him.
Sal Rodriguez:Yeah, and I don't think it has to, I heard some guys talking on YouTube. We're like, does this movie replaced the other one? I would definitely say it does not replace. No. It's just like this little extra bonus that we have. It's the
Jason Connell:companion cut. You know, the director's cut in some movies. They're notorious for this Blade Runner. There's this version. There's that version. It never diminishes the original effect. It just gets more conversations going. Yeah, so I love it. There's a director's cut of this. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing a director's cut of three and I can appreciate I love seeing the new footage. Let me be clear, super cool. The love that he spent the time went in, I bought a ticket to see it. I own it. I love it. It's a companion. Nothing's gonna replace how I felt about the original. They're not going to put out E T. This is a better car. This is more et than the original. It's not gonna be like, Oh, I'm always gonna love the one I saw as a child at the drive in that was magic. Rocky four was magical. Sharing the theater with my father and we're just like, oh my gosh, yeah, it's gotta be Ivan Drago. But this is a really cool cut. And I'm anxious to see more of this.
Sal Rodriguez:Yeah. And you know what it opens up? It opens up the Pandora's box because I started thinking I kind of left Rocky franchise I think after Rocky Balboa. I think was that the last one? Yeah, rocky Bobo? Yes. Okay, and then I just kind of okay, so I didn't get into any of the Creed's but now that I'm going down the rabbit hole of rocky I started watching some Creek trailers go you know what I need to start watching these creed movies and I need to get up to date with the Rocky franchise. Yeah, you do. So I've been saying that. And you know one way I do that also Jason is by revisiting my rock. My Rocky Action figures. These are made by NECA Lang we are not sponsored or endorsed by NACA, but these are fantastic action figures came out about about 10 years ago I think so this is the Clubber Lang played by Mr. T pity I had the pleasure. I had the pleasure of talking to Mr. T at the gym and I used to work at 24 Hour Fitness. He's a very nice guy. Very friendly, open nice. Man, I was happy to talk to him at the gym. He would always ask about my mother because I told him that my mother really appreciated how much Mr. T loved his mother. Yeah. So I said Awesome. Yeah, my mother loves that you love your mother, you know? So when I would see Mr. T You said hey, how's your mother? He would always ask me.
Jason Connell:So you guys are some mother lovers.
Sal Rodriguez:He is a mother lover. I'm a mother lover. And of course we have you Yeah, Ivan Drago. Wow again same maker neka looks great. They looked as ripped as they did in the movie and let me tell you them when these action figures came out these particular action figures came out they're pretty much state of the art because this was before this you had to buy like a spider man action figure to get this much articulation to get this many points of articulation. So when they introduced this type of sculpt, and a movie figure not a comic book figure, believe me these were state of the art. And then of course oh my gosh, the man of the hour. Wait, you're doing it alone now? Okay. Yes. Because the last one is my favorite. Okay, the last one is my favorite of course we have Rocky
Jason Connell:is this rocky from Rocky for because it looks like the show? I
Sal Rodriguez:think I matched the shorts. I think this is indeed Rocky from Rocky for because he is wearing the red white and blue shorts. With a pattern after Apollo. Yes. Yeah. So there is rocky above? Yes. And then yes. The reason I say the best the best for last because to me, he is my favorite. He is in full full entrance garb.
Jason Connell:Uncle Sam does that hat come off? I love that. Yeah,
Sal Rodriguez:this is a He's got the whole Uncle Sam outfit. The hat comes off. And yeah, so this is my rocky set. And I've got others these are made by NACA I've gotten others made by Jax Pacific and recently MeeGo came out with some rocky action figures. So for all you Toy fans out there, there is no shortage of rocky action figures and collectibles.
Jason Connell:Those are fantastic. So thank you for sharing.
Sal Rodriguez:I'm happy to own and sell.
Jason Connell:This was so much fun exploring rocky for Rocky versus Drago with you tonight?
Sal Rodriguez:Yeah, I want encourage everybody to see I would say at this point in time, see both versions, compare them, you know, come to your own ideas and ideals as far as comparisons and see that documentary because you really get into how slight thinks his overall attitude towards life. And let me tell you something, movie aside, just watching an hour and a half documentary about sly. I'll tell you if you love sly, you're gonna love him even more after watching this documentary. So yeah, be sure to check that out. I think you can see it for free on YouTube. And just to be clear, I love both versions. Oh, there you go. Nice. Okay, all right. I will see if I agree. I'm gonna watch the other one the next few days.
Jason Connell:I do. I really do. They got me thinking Sal. So yeah, I mean, original. Sure top dog but right there, right there. So thank you so much for listening and please be sure to subscribe to Let's Talk Cobra Kai, wherever you get your podcast. You can also really help us by giving the show a five star rating on Apple podcast.
Sal Rodriguez:And for all your listeners that enjoy sharing your thoughts you can leave us a review on Apple podcasts, send us a direct message or post a comment on our social media which is at let's talk Cobra Kai, as well as at just curious media. If you're
Jason Connell:a dedicated listener of Let's Talk Cobra Kai, consider supporting the show on Patreon. This greatly benefits the show on many fronts and offers you exclusive access and much more. We also highly recommend checking out our other podcast and visiting just curious media.com
Sal Rodriguez:No Mercy.
Jason Connell:So thank you so much for listening and please be sure to subscribe to the let's talk movies podcast as well as the let's talk movies YouTube Live Channel. You can also really help us by giving the show a five star rating on Apple podcast and for all your listeners and enjoy sharing your thoughts you can leave us a review on Apple podcast send us a direct message or post a comment on any let's talk movies social media platform. We also highly recommend checking out our other podcast and visiting just curious media.com
